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vision cages

throatoyster Aug 03, 2007 08:15 AM

I have a few crot's that are out growing their boxes, and I'd like to set them up in a more display type cage. I like the way the visions look, but I have a few questions.

1. What precautions to you take to make sure the glass doors can't be slid open? i.e. locks etc... I don't like the idea of it only taking a slide of the hand to get into the cage.

2. The sizes I like don't come with a spot for a lamp, how do you heat them if you have a bunch of units. Can you just run heat tape through stacked cages like a rack?

thanks,
Will

Replies (8)

TimCole Aug 03, 2007 11:46 AM

Will,
There are two types of locks that I use depending on the model cage you are using. For the larger models with a front cage support I use the showcase locks that stick to the glass and are often advertised as the locks to use on visions. These are more expensive that the normal showcase locks.

For those cages without a front support, a standard showcase lock will work. They have a locking screw on the back or are pinched to hold in place.

Do yourself a favor and ask before buying the locks to have them keyed alike to make thing easier later on when you have a lot of cages! You can buy them already with the same keys if you ask.
-----
Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Dave Northcott Aug 03, 2007 02:37 PM

Will
All the Vision Cages heat extremely well with under tank heat and this is the most efficient way to heat the cages. If you need a basking light we sell a low profile hood that has a ceramic fixture and mounts side ways to accomodate the shallow drop down vent area.We had these specially made for that purpose. Please note that a 60 watt bulb will make your basking spot over 100 degrees and we don't encourage the use of higher wattage bulbs.

When using our cages for Venomous, particularly Rattlesnakes, I recommend that you put something in the ledge area above the doors to prevent the snakes from hiding out above the doors, they seem to like that ledge. You can use foam, pvc pipe with caps or anything else that fits in that area. Unfortunately with the molded one piece design the ledge has to be there.

Locks are available from us for the cages or you can purchase them at Glass Shops. Some hardware stores may also carry them.

Dave
Vision

Carmichael Aug 03, 2007 03:45 PM

First, DAVE, when you have a chance, can you call me on my cell at 847.902.9941 or email at carmichr@cityoflakeforest.com I've left a few emails with Scott about the prototype cage for venomous but haven't heard back from him. We had an initial problem but I have it rectified and we are ready to roll with the order. I'd like to get that order finalized ASAP.

As far as using Visions for rattlesnakes we keep most of our rattlers in Visions and have never had any problems. We actually use the shrouds to drop a low wattage heat bulb/lamp to provide a basking spot and light source which they seem to enjoy. Like Dave said, I would not recommend going with anything over 60 watt unless your room temps are very cool but anything over 75 (even in the large models) will probably be too much. We also use a different system with some of our 28" x 24" x 12" Visions: we mount a small pro product radiant heat panel to the roof and add a 18" fluorescent that is mounted over the back vent using industrial velcro which works great.

A lot of people criticize the lips around the front frame but I have never had any problems with them. Pipe tubing seals them off just fine but I have found that some of our rattlers enjoy using the lips to hide out in. One of our polystictus would refuse to feed unless it could hide on the top lip. So, we now allow her to climb up there and we use a special mirror to look in to make sure we know where she's at before reaching in the cage with hemostats, etc.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>Will
>>All the Vision Cages heat extremely well with under tank heat and this is the most efficient way to heat the cages. If you need a basking light we sell a low profile hood that has a ceramic fixture and mounts side ways to accomodate the shallow drop down vent area.We had these specially made for that purpose. Please note that a 60 watt bulb will make your basking spot over 100 degrees and we don't encourage the use of higher wattage bulbs.
>>
>>When using our cages for Venomous, particularly Rattlesnakes, I recommend that you put something in the ledge area above the doors to prevent the snakes from hiding out above the doors, they seem to like that ledge. You can use foam, pvc pipe with caps or anything else that fits in that area. Unfortunately with the molded one piece design the ledge has to be there.
>>
>>Locks are available from us for the cages or you can purchase them at Glass Shops. Some hardware stores may also carry them.
>>
>>Dave
>>Vision
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

lepidus-klauberi Aug 04, 2007 02:57 PM

What size heat panel are you using for the Vision 221? I am also curious as to how you are mounting them to the roof, and if you stack the 221's? Currently, I am contemplating using the 221, but still unsure of the limited height of 12". Thanks in advance.
-----
John Blume
WWW.KLAUBERI.COM

Carmichael Aug 05, 2007 03:03 PM

If the 221's are the models that measure 28" x 24" x 12" we use a small pro product radiant heat panel (measures approximately 10" x 10". The heat panel is screwed into the inside roof of the cage on one corner (the screws come out through the top of the outside roof but can be easily cut to allow for stacking). The panels are then attached to a Spyder Robotics thermostat to create the proper thermal gradient. We then have a fluorescent fixture w/18" full spectrum bulb providing light through the back vent. For lepidus, we keep them in the 222's (28x24x24) and simply heat the cages with a drop in heat lamp and a 60 or 75 watt Verilux lamp) which provides a gradient ranging from the low 70's on the cool side to the low to mid 80's warm side with a basking area (under the heat panel) that reaches the low 90's for 4-6 hours daily). Night temps drop to ambient room temps at around 70-72 deg F. I like the higher model for lepidus as it allows me to get a nice stack of flat rocks to provide thermal regulatory opportunities for this rock loving rattler. Hope this helps.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>What size heat panel are you using for the Vision 221? I am also curious as to how you are mounting them to the roof, and if you stack the 221's? Currently, I am contemplating using the 221, but still unsure of the limited height of 12". Thanks in advance.
>>-----
>>John Blume
>>WWW.KLAUBERI.COM
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

SNAKE26 Aug 04, 2007 07:37 PM

I use Vision 221's for my rattlesnakes. When any of the snakes were first introduced into the cages and were checking them out, they all found the ledge and kept going up there during their settling in process. Once they were comfortable and the newness wore off they rarely ventured up there. I use the adhesive showcase locks and they are all keyed alike. Be careful when putting the lock back on after you're done in the cage. If you try to slide the lock back on with one hand it will also cause the door to slide open with it. You need two hands, one to hold the door closed while the other slides the lock on. This is only when putting the locks back on when they are in the 'locked' position. They are in a room that is heated but I do have light fixtires in them. I drilled a few holes in the top and mounted 20" aquarium fluorescent light fixtures. I had to cut off the plugs and drill a hole to get the cords through. I then rewired the plugs to the cord and they work fine and look good. I had first tried to mount the lights on the vent in the back but not much light came through and the cages looked dim.

SrpntHntr Aug 06, 2007 02:31 PM

Unfortunately there is no "perfect" cage. As an owner of 36 Vision cages used to house rattlesnakes let me tell you how much fun I've had over the years with them.

The locks are ugly and cumbersome but something that you should probably learn to live with. I have a sealed room with sealed tileboard walls, sealed door and concrete floor for the snakes. That security made me gave up on the locks after the first year or so because they would obstruct my view, leave marks on the glass, get feces on them, jam and have to be broken to be removed (read that buy new doors) and the most fun of all is that if you intend on breeding any small species you will have to plug the gap between doors and that can't be done with the locks. I have never had a rattlesnake push the door open. Burrowing species or constrictors with more "push" might be able to open the doors.

The "lip" is also a constant source of entertainment. If you keep one snake in one cage with no cage furniture and you don't see the snake, you know it's on the lip. When you keep pairs or more in a single cage and have rocks, wood, or other fun stuff in the cages you don't know where the snake is when you can't see it. I had to make a special mirror so I could scan the cage lips, what a treat when looking for a venomous snake. I also made some special hooks for removing snakes from the lip, yet another treat. If scanning for your snakes with a little mirror and trying to extricate them with a 90 degree hook sounds fun (it can be during the winter when you haven't been hunting for awhile) go for it. Snakes also seem to think the "lip" is their toilet. If you have a litter the neonates seem to thing the "lip" is a nursery. If you ever want to clean your cages the "lip" keeps you from being able to clean the cage by washing/flushing with water. Most of my cages have been expandable spray foam around the lips to fill the gap. This cuts out the nonsense of the disappearing snakes but doesn't help with the cleaning.

The heat/light issue is an easy fix with some models that have the elongated recess for fluorescent lights. If you stack the cages the light from the cage below heats the cage above. Heat tape behind or between the rows works but heat tape itself is inherently dangerous. If the tape is placed between 2 rows it heats both sides and cuts down on the amount of heat tape required. There have been MANY fires and meltdowns due to heat tape. Your best bet is a room with controlled ambient temps.

On the issue of stacking cages (which they are supposedly designed for) I have mine in stacks 4 cages high, you might as well buy a hi-lift jack to get the doors out of the bottom rows. Over a couple years time my bottom row cages have become "pregnant" bowing out at the sides and crushing down on the door frame making the doors stick and impossible to remove without prying the frames open. Another thing you'll notice when dealing with multiple cages is the inconsistency in size. There is up to 3/8" of difference in height on mine within the same models. After careful consideration and measuring of all units I have them in rows according to rough exterior size so I don't have a wacky shack appearance. Shims can eliminate some of this problem when there is only a minor difference in size.

Now for my absolute favorite problem with the Vision cages. The tracks for the doors and the gaps between the doors. Let me say first that I have NEVER lost a venomous snake. Outside of the snake room that is. I have however had a good many neonate rattlesnakes and some copperheads release themselves from their cages. The track for the doors is a catch all for bedding, feces and anything else you don't want stuck in it. I really see no way around this with sliding doors. Most of my cages are now single door units because I have filled the gap for the interior door to keep debris out of it, this also effectively locks that door. The exterior door track is also blocked as a locked. This keeps ugly locks out of the line of sight and keeps debris out of the track. I just pull the blocks out when I need to open the doors or clean. I also have clear plastic spacers for the gaps between the doors. I found these were necessary after 2 litters of sistrurus, a littler of copperheads and a couple of baby lepidus found their ways between the doors while I was out of town. There is no greater thrill than walking into your snake room after a 9 day hunting trip and a 900 mile drive home to find it crawling with baby venomous reptiles. PLUG YOUR GAPS!

OK, there are all my observations on the design flaws of Vision cages. As for the good points they look nice when clean. There is no better alternative that I have found for sale. It's expensive and time consuming to build your own.

throatoyster Aug 09, 2007 12:00 PM

Hey, sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I picked up my first one and everything looks great. Thanks for all the replies!

-Will

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