Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Check out the email exchange at this link:
[ur]http://logojoe.com/foi/RE notification of TPWD LE for road hunting 3.txt[/url]

According to TPWD's Chief of Wildlife Enforcement and TPWD's Regulations Coordinator, it is LEGAL for anyone to collect or remove DORs. Since most of us do collect DORs, what does that mean to us?

1) All herpers driving along Texas roads should keep tongs and or field hooks handy (dangerous to handle DOR venomous by hand).

2) All herpers in Texas should carry collecting containers (you don't want to just plop a DOR snake in your backseat).

3) It's OK to stop for herps in the road (how else are you going to collect the DOR's).

4) Stopping for a herps in the road or carrying collecting equipment can no longer be considered probable cause for a search or evidence of a violation.

5) Special bonus -How many of times have you heard of DORs turning out to be just stunned and later found live and well. Given this possibility, even the possession of a LIVE snake is questionable (at best) as probable cause or evidence.

I'd suggest printing out this email and keeping it handy while road cruising for DORs. Some of the wardens might be under the impression that collecting DORs is "take" and therefore hunting. Obviously, the higher ups as TPWD know better.

So, TPWD just basically invalidated the law...

If their official stance on this law is that to take DOR animals is LEGAL, then it becomes impossible for probable cause to be assumed when one has collection equipment with them...The only way "probable cause" can stick is if a Warden were to get someone to ADMIT that they were pursuing LIVE herps....Having bags, tongs, hooks, etc. is completely legal in the pursuit of dead herps (didn't ya know that handling a dead rattlesnake with bare hands ISN'T in the imterest of public safety? )

Wait a minute...wait a minute...there WILL be no dead herps on the road...after all it is ILLEGAL to run them over because (according to TPWD) KILL=TAKE....right?

TPWD just made this law COMPLETELY unenforceable...with no help from us...who says they can't do anything right?

Another thing- If their aim is "safety", how is removing a dead herp from the road ANY safer for the person than removing a LIVE one? Yet, one is legal and the other is not....hehehe...if this situation weren't real, it would simply be too funny...

-Giggling inside
AzAtrox

Following this saga, is like reading Alice In Wonderland again, as an adult......
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Lloyd Heilbrunn

Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

All,

It is already legal to have live herps and collecting equipment in your vehicle. If you have just come from field collecting and decide to look for some inverts or now DORs along the road they can't bust you for having equipment or live herps. It is not illegal to transport live herps or have collecting equipment in your vehicle. The ONLY way they can bust you is to see you stop and pick up a herp on the road or ROW.

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX

I guess the same deal with hunting cuts? You can hunt all you want, shining, etc. and take photos, but you cannot collect the animals you see unless it's an invert.
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V.P.
Austin Herp. Soc.

Mike is absolutely right here. I (and I think most of us) ALWAYS carry hooks, bags etc in my truck. I don't envy the wardens their task in trying to get convictions on this one. Particularly since we intend to challenge every citation.....

Brad Chambers

If it's not "safe" to collect and hunt for herps, or in other words, stop the car on the shoulder of a rural road, get out, and pick an animal up to take it home (although there hasn't been a vehicle-related accident in 60 years)...

...then W-H-Y is it "okay" and LEGAL (and supposedly 'safe') to once again - stop the car on the shoulder of a rural road, get out, and pick an animal up if it is DEAD On the Road...

OR to be a "good Samaritan" by saving an animal whose life is in danger??????

Am I missing something?

Is there an added safety risk from potential traffic hazards because you want to take the animal home (even though you're going through ALL of the same motions - once again - stopping the car on the shoulder of a rural road, getting out, and picking an animal up with your hands)?

Just being Captain Obvious here, you have to do ALL OF THOSE SAME THINGS to collect live, DORs, or be a "good Samaritan"!!!

Just proof that all of this crap is founded in unjust, prejudiced, unfounded, ignorant, and arrogant politics. We need to rub their noses in their inconsistencies, period.

DR
Suboc.com

sin, when you get the chance to review tonights episode, please register and inform us of how all this works, without the spin doctors. We are mostly a group of people who genuinely care for the herps of the Lone Star State and would benefit greatly if you could come to the table and talk with us.

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Todd Hughes

Ante...

Not sure if I read your post right...I don't necessarily fancy myself a "spin doctor"...I'm simply stating that by TPW stating that it is legal to collect DORs from the roadway, they are invalidating this new "law"...They claim it's a "public safety" issue with people in the roadway, and yet in order to legally collect DORs, (or scoot wildlife off the road, or take pictures of wildlife, etc.) one has to go through the exact same motions as one does if they intended to capture a live animal...Therefore, there IS no "safety issue"...

As far as TPW's interpretation of "intent to take", how can a Warden distinguish between one's "intent" to collect DORs or be a "good samaritan" and one's "intent" to collect, absent a stated intent from the person being questioned? Both the collection of DORs and the "good samaritan" must have "collecting parapharnalia" in their vehicles, as it isn't smart to play with dead or live venomous creatures without said parapharnalia...doing so WOULD create a "public safety issue" IMO....

Like I said, not sure whom you were referring to with the "spin doctors" comment, but I'll cop a squat and await your response.

-AzAtrox

that was my response and it was meant for the head of law enforcement at TP&WD. I do not consider you a spin doctor, but I suppose we all can turn a few phrases at times!
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Todd Hughes

Duly noted sir...thanks for the clarification

I for one can hope that TPW sees the fallacy with this type of law...we shall see...I imagine when they start enforcing it they'll see that it will cause the Wardens all sorts of headaches....Just not a very well thought out or well planned law...but enough from me....Thanks again for your clarification...

-AzAtrox