Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is there any way to pick the best of an abbott's clutch?
Of course I'm going for heavy black borders, but I love when the adults head patterns are outlined in black.
What markers to look for in choosing? Will the darkest baby turn out best?

And another question = Do Abbott's Os tend to gain lengthwise striping along the dorsal sides as they age? I've seen precious few adults.

Thanks,
-Jack
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V.P.
Austin Herp. Soc.

I honestly don't know about choosing an adult from a neonate so add some salt.
I purchased a male '06 from Mike Greathouse - it was the last of his clutch unsold and he is absolutely fabulous.

I paid for a female '07 from Rob Stevens - and I've not seen the one I'm getting (I didn't ask either) and I'm not bothered by it, I've not seen an adult Abbott's that I didn't think was stunning.

From progression pictures I've seen, I think you can make out a good guess at the borders based upon the young.

As far as background color, I think that's harder to predict but I say go with a big known breeder, because a known breeder will likely have sold adults that don't have a really nice background color, giving you better odds on your young one having them.

Head border, I'm not sure what you are referring to.
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11.14 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
2.3 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
1.1 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus nasicus (W Hognose)
4.2.14 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

>>Is there any way to pick the best of an abbott's clutch?
>>Of course I'm going for heavy black borders, but I love when the adults head patterns are outlined in black.
>>What markers to look for in choosing? Will the darkest baby turn out best?
>>
>>And another question = Do Abbott's Os tend to gain lengthwise striping along the dorsal sides as they age? I've seen precious few adults.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>-Jack
>>-----

as you know, it is hard to tell how they will come out but if the parents are nice you have a head start.
What I would look for would be the one or ones that almost look anery. The blacker the saddles the better.
Now if you can find one that has almost solid black saddles with some red already showing up around the head and neck, that just may be the combo you are looking for.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Choose the best parents and buy babies from them!

Brad Chambers

>>Choose the best parents and buy babies from them!
>>
>>Brad Chambers

the question was
"Is there any way to pick the best of an abbott's clutch?"

not where can I find the best Abbotts okeetees.

Yes, the parents are an excellent indicator but.........

In this case it would seem pretty obvious, to me at least, there is a clutch of abbotts and the question was what to look for in those hatchlings to help choose the babies that could/should/would possibly turn out to be the best.
As you know or should know..in a clutch of okeetees, or any "morph" or cultivar, not all of the hatchlings will look like the parents. Some may not be as nice and some may be quite nicer and hardly any two in the clutch will turn out exactly the same.

take these
first pic is the mother
second pic the father
third pic one of the offspring.
could you have predicted that offspring from those parents?
No, but when I saw that hatchling I knew it was a keeper.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

hey Jimmy - I would have kept that baby just because of the aberrant pattern! Very Nice
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

The parents are a strong indication of how the babies will be, but remember, polygenic traits are notoriously variable. If you're keeping all the babies for a year, you'll easily see which to keep, but even though many of them will have superior "choice" markers, some will disappoint.

As Jimmy said, the ones that look most like an anery A will usually WOW you at maturity. The ones that show little or no color in the center of their markings generally have the least blotch color and widest black margins. It only takes a few weeks for Okeetees to reveal their color potential. The ones that appear to have no color at hatching will manifest center color after a shed or two, but the darkest ones tend to have the widest black margins.

Regarding ground color, I did say the ones like aneries will have the best black margins, but depending on what you like, maybe not the best ground coloration. If you like what some are calling buckskin Okeetees, the highest contrast hatchlings should have the lightest ground color. What appears to be white or gray at hatch usually manifests to a beautiful buckskin color. If they have richly colored blotches or saddles, this translates to a spectacular adult. So, if you want the most overall red coloration in an Okeetee, choose the ones with virtually black markings and the darkest ground color at hatch.

Here is a split shot of some that hatched a couple of days ago. In the top pic, you can see what the naked eye sees. Many appear to have almost solid black color, but when you see the overexposed pic below, color is more visible. Of course, the first dead skins on these is just now separating, so some visual distractions result. Nobody should sell a corn before it sheds anyway, so look them over after they shed and choose your's per the criteria cited above.

Anomalous mismarks like pseudo-striping are fairly common in Okeetees. Not unlike most market trends that swing in pendulum fashion, each generation of corn keeper seems to want the opposite of what was popular in the prior era. Ten years ago, there were some aberrant Okeetees out there that has connected markings in pseudo-striped fashion. They were popular and as they tended to dominate the market OR when superior quality Okeetees hit the market, demand swung toward classic pattern again. Now, it's swinging the other way and people seek the aberrant ones again. There will always be two camps; those that only tolerate perfection and those that want the most aberrant. Henry Ford made only black cars at first, but quickly learned that color variety appealed to a broader market; hence better sales/higher profits. Since these corns will pass polygenic traits like non-recessive aberrancies to some of their progeny, selective breeding for those is possible, fun, and often profitable. Watch out though. Some of those pattern anomalies are difficult to eliminate. Classically patterned lavenders are relatively rare in the industry. The ziggy-zaggy-aztecky markings that were common in the original lavenders have been hard (if not impossible) to scrub out of those bloodlines.

South Mountain Reptiles

I agree with your post-similar to what I would have said if I wasn't too lazy at the time

When my own (Cochran) Abbotts produce next year, I plan to keep them all for 3-4 months to pick my holdbacks, then provide pics of the parents AND individual pics of each hatchling to prospective buyers.

Brad Chambers