Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is so sad for so many reasons...why would you try to kill a snake in a tree? Why would you just start discharging a firearm in such a reckless manner? etc...

NOBLE, Okla. (Aug. 4) - A stray bullet fired by a police officer trying to shoot a snake hit and killed a 5-year-old boy fishing at a nearby pond, officials said. Austin Haley was fishing with his grandfather, Jack Tracy, Friday evening when Tracy said he heard a shot and saw a bullet hit the water just a few feet in front of the boat dock where he was standing.

Moments later, a second shot was fired that hit Austin in the head.

A Noble police officer who had responded to a report of a snake in a tree apparently fired the deadly shot while trying to kill the snake, according to City Manager Bob Wade.

Tracy said he initially thought he and his grandson were under attack by someone trying to kill them, so he put the boy into the back of a 4-wheeler and drove to his daughter's house about 200 yards away.

"Then two officers came out of the brush over there," he told The Oklahoman. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing."

The boy was taken to an Oklahoma City hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

A resident of the Crest Lane neighborhood called police after discovering a large snake in a tree, Wade said.

"I was told that they tried several ways to get the snake down, but it was still hissing at them and firmly lodged," Wade said. "What I was told is that the owner of the home either suggested or agreed that they should go ahead and shoot the snake, and then everything happened from there."

Wade refused to identify the officer suspected of firing the shots but said the officer has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

"This is so bizarre it has to be fully investigated. ... We're pretty sure circumstantially that it is the bullet from the police officer's gun, but it might be a bullet from someone else," Wade said.

A state investigation has been launched into the shooting, and it appears the fatal shot was fired by the officer, said Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown.

"We have no reason to believe it's not," Brown said. "But there certainly will be an investigation."

Tracy has little doubt about what happened.

"I'm not saying the cop shot him on purpose," Tracy said. "It was an accident. But let me tell you - if I had a kid and put him in this car and didn't put him in a car seat and he got killed on the way to town, they'd charge me with murder ... and what this cop did is a lot worse than that."

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/cops-shots-at-snake-may-have-killed-boy/20070805154109990001

"I was told that they tried several ways to get the snake down, but it was still hissing at them and firmly lodged," Wade said.

What did the idiot officer expect the ratsnake to do, just jump out of the tree into his arms?!

I say "ratsnake", because I'm sure we can all guess that's what it was.

This upsets me to no end. I feel so sorry for that boy's family.

>>"I was told that they tried several ways to get the snake down, but it was still hissing at them and firmly lodged," Wade said.
>>
>>What did the idiot officer expect the ratsnake to do, just jump out of the tree into his arms?!
>>
>>I say "ratsnake", because I'm sure we can all guess that's what it was.
>>
>>This upsets me to no end. I feel so sorry for that boy's family.

The officer should be charged with negligent homicide. Any police officer should know not to fire a gun into the air. If it was really necessary, a shotgun would have been the only "safe" option.

deg

>>This is so sad for so many reasons...why would you try to kill a snake in a tree? Why would you just start discharging a firearm in such a reckless manner? etc...
>>
>>NOBLE, Okla. (Aug. 4) - A stray bullet fired by a police officer trying to shoot a snake hit and killed a 5-year-old boy fishing at a nearby pond, officials said. Austin Haley was fishing with his grandfather, Jack Tracy, Friday evening when Tracy said he heard a shot and saw a bullet hit the water just a few feet in front of the boat dock where he was standing.
>>
>>Moments later, a second shot was fired that hit Austin in the head.
>>
>>A Noble police officer who had responded to a report of a snake in a tree apparently fired the deadly shot while trying to kill the snake, according to City Manager Bob Wade.
>>
>>Tracy said he initially thought he and his grandson were under attack by someone trying to kill them, so he put the boy into the back of a 4-wheeler and drove to his daughter's house about 200 yards away.
>>
>>"Then two officers came out of the brush over there," he told The Oklahoman. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing."
>>
>>The boy was taken to an Oklahoma City hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
>>
>>A resident of the Crest Lane neighborhood called police after discovering a large snake in a tree, Wade said.
>>
>>"I was told that they tried several ways to get the snake down, but it was still hissing at them and firmly lodged," Wade said. "What I was told is that the owner of the home either suggested or agreed that they should go ahead and shoot the snake, and then everything happened from there."
>>
>>Wade refused to identify the officer suspected of firing the shots but said the officer has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.
>>
>>"This is so bizarre it has to be fully investigated. ... We're pretty sure circumstantially that it is the bullet from the police officer's gun, but it might be a bullet from someone else," Wade said.
>>
>>A state investigation has been launched into the shooting, and it appears the fatal shot was fired by the officer, said Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown.
>>
>>"We have no reason to believe it's not," Brown said. "But there certainly will be an investigation."
>>
>>Tracy has little doubt about what happened.
>>
>>"I'm not saying the cop shot him on purpose," Tracy said. "It was an accident. But let me tell you - if I had a kid and put him in this car and didn't put him in a car seat and he got killed on the way to town, they'd charge me with murder ... and what this cop did is a lot worse than that."
>>
>>http://news.aol.com/story/_a/cops-shots-at-snake-may-have-killed-boy/20070805154109990001

This article makes me want to give up on mankind.
-----
If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

This morning's paper has a story confirming that the snake was indeed a black rat, as we all suspected. A wildlife official was quoted accurately as giving its threat level -- zero -- and habits, and cautioning people that rat snakes are entirely harmless. I suspect that homeowner feels even more stupid today.

THE OKLAHOMAN (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) 08 August 07 Snake was no rattler (Jennifer Griswold)
Noble: A police bullet that killed a small boy last week had been aimed at a black rat snake, a Norman animal control officer said Tuesday.
After the shooting on Friday that killed Austin Haley, 5, Norman's animal control department was called to collect and store the dead snake, Noble City Manager Bob Wade said.
Noble doesn't have an animal control officer, he said.
The snake has been frozen and stored for investigators, Norman Police Chief Phil Cotton said.
The incident started when Noble police officers responded to a call from a resident who thought a rattlesnake had slithered up into a birdhouse.
One of the two shots fired by police hit Austin while he was out fishing with his grandfather. His funeral is today.
Noble Police Chief Ben Daves said the city has been without an animal control officer for about a month, so police responded.
The Noble Police Department's Police and Procedures Manual says "firearms may be used to destroy an animal that represents a threat to public safety.”
The manual states "firearms shall not be discharged when it appears likely that an innocent person may be injured.”
The three officers involved in the shooting are on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of investigations by Noble and the OSBI.
The names of the officers involved have not been released.
In the meantime, the seven officers remaining on the police force are working overtime to cover the shifts, Daves said.
About black rat snakes
"I can't say they wouldn't bite, but they're not venomous,” said Mark Howery, a state wildlife biologist. Their other traits include:
•Common in Oklahoma.
•Adept at climbing.
•Often confused with bull snakes, water snakes, diamondback rattlesnakes or cottonmouths because of their color pattern. They may mimic rattlesnake behavior.
•Eat birds, small wildlife.
Snake was no rattler

no post

that envolves a firearm in this instance. I don't care if it where a king cobra in that tree. Firing a bullet in the air is way too reckless!! And as long as it is in the tree it can harm no one anyway. Even if your aim is true the bullet will still pass right thru the snake and continue on its way.

Even when a cops life is on the line he is still trained to consider his backdrop before making the decision to fire his weapon (ie. you would not shoot in the direction of an elementary school reguardless of the threat level to you). Basically you only discharge your weapon when you face emminent death or great bodily harm. The only other times authorized to discharge your weapon are on the firing range, training exercises and dispatching wounded animals (ie. deer hit by car that is very crippled), The last is usually done only with suppervisory approval depending on the agency. There is a very good reason why these strict safeguards are in place and we have just seen the traggic consequences when the gun safety that is taught in the academy is disreguarded.

As a fellow officer I really feel for the childs family and I also really feel for the officer responsible. It is a traggedy that I am sure the officer will have to live with for his entire life no matter what happens with in the judicial system.

Even if venomous, that snake didn't pose an imminent harm to anyone. They were out of line shooting it - even if it wasn't the obvious risk to others - in that situation, so they should NOT be able to rely on "doing their duty" as an excuse.

>>As a fellow officer I really feel for the childs family and I also really feel for the officer responsible.

All respect to you, but all three of those people (I won't call them officers and soil the name of good ones) should be hung from that same tree. I can believe ONE dumb officer doing something like this, but there were supposedly THREE. Three! ...and not one of them had enough sense - sense that any 10 year old that has went through a hunter safety course has - to NOT shoot up in that tree with a pistol. The ones that didn't shoot, but didn't stop the OTHER officer from shooting, are just as bad! Horrible. They should get the maximum penalty possible since THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER. They should get a WORSE penalty than a member of the general public should get.

Yes, I believe in captial punishment. Yes, I believe at least the shooter deserves it in this case.
-----
KJUN Snakehaven

I agree with you in all but the capital punishment issue in this case. Officers are to be held to a higher standard than the general public and as such should be punished harder when that trust is breached in a reckless and malicious manner.

This was definitly a reckless disreguard for public safety. I also agree that venomous or not makes no difference and didn't mean to imply that it did.

I do not know what the punishment is in that Texas locality for an accidental shooting death but I imagine that the Police Department itself will be in for a HUGE civil liability law suit as well as the officer. Most likely it will go further and will cost the officer in question A LOT more than any criminal proceedings will. He may get some time to serve for the shooting but the civil court side will most likely keep him financially ruined for the rest of his life. This punishment does pale in comparison to the family that has to go on for the rest of their lives with out a child. A parent that has to see their child die is probably the most traggic thing that an individual could ever go thru and the punishment should reflect that.

This story reminds me of when, as an environmental educator, I was carrying a kingsnake out to do a presentation. The museum was having an outdoor event, and my scaly friend was calmly looped across my forearms. There was a police officer at the event, and when he saw me coming down the walkway with the snake, he almost fell over backing away from me, his hand on his gun, white as a sheet, going, "SSnn-sn-snaaaaaaaaaake! SNAKE sn-snsnaaayayayake!"

I had NOWHERE to go, between two railings and the door behind me. I very calmly and soothingly told him, "I have complete control of the snake. It is harmless and nonvenomous, and you have nothing to fear. He's not going to hurt you. I have known this snake for a long time, and he's not going to hurt you. Please be calm. I will take him back inside if you are worried about it. He's not going to hurt you."

Eventually, he stopped hyperventilating long enough to let me and the kingsnake get to where we were going, and his fellow officers REALLY ragged on him. But damn, I thought I was about to get shot by a hysterical ophidiophobe.