Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey, I have a male Florida king and plan on breeding him one day. I was wondering if I were to get another subspecies of common king if the value of the neonates produced would be less than of pure-bred value or if anyone buys intergrades. I'm guessing it might depend on I breed him with a snake that naturally intergrades with Florida kings too, as opposed to a Cali or Splendida. So basically, is there a market for intergrades?

Thanks

value,

unless you like ugly snakes:

yearling eastern x brooksi (F1 het for hypo)

adult eastern x hypo brooksi (F2- hypo)

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

do.

They are just worthless animals and should be frozen so they don't dirty up the gene pool.

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

intergrade/hybrid king

The market for snakes is much like the market for dogs. Generally, pure bred animals will fetch (pun intended) higher prices than mutts, even though mutts often make excellent pets.
There are some very strong opinions on both sides of the fence and you'll have to make the decision that is right for you. You should breed what you like. There are some very nice hybrids/integrades out there. Brooks x eastern kings, diamond x jungle carpets, etc. But, if it's about money, you probably won't make it by mixing species/subspecies. If you do sell any of the offspring, be truthful about what they are.
Personally, I lean toward pure snakes, but I'm dabbling in thayeri x pueblan hybrids inspired by Mesozoic Reptiles' projects.

Well the original poster was asking about snake species that naturally intergrade in the wild like florida kings and easterns. But somehow this turned into a hybrid topic.

You should look at the prices of some hybrids again. They fetch wayyy more than pure breds (unlike dogs). The ball x bloods, carpondros (carpet python x chondro, carpet x ball (carpalls) and many many others. Also with colubrids like the painted kings and 4-6x spp crosses.

It all boils down to looks. The prettier the snake the higher the price. But you can make a lot more $ than pures and they sell faster (more popular).

Also "mutts" are refferred to by the websters dictionary as dog breeds only. The secondary usage of Mutt is a stupid person. No joke. Look it up.

The thing with hybrids is the first generation are usually no good looking. Its when you breed the F1's back together that you get the truly wild stuff. Most people don't know this and assume hybrids are ugly. But in fact when you cross first genertaion hybrids you get all the great colors and abberancies.

Honduran x florida king
[img]http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={2A77669A-13EA-428A-8DC9-2AD540DC7450}&exp=f&moddt=38671.0006953935&ssdyn=1[img]

calif x pueblin

corn x pueblin

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

"The market for snakes is much like the market for dogs. Generally, pure bred animals will fetch (pun intended) higher prices than mutts"

i am a firm believer in purity of the or any species,
but the colors possibilities and individualism of the hybrid done with selective forecast and have introduced some of the prettiest snakes on the planet.

The thrill of seeing the offspring pip and emerge is a sight to behold and crazier that waiting to see if your hets will produce a morph.

though IT is out of natural circumstances ,they are generally more Vigorous and healthier provided they are compatible(geneticly)

and the dog evolved from the wolf and pure breeds i sure are the result of selective breeding of geographic variants of the hounds.

i guess that selective breeding still produces a mutt until it is line bred and proven,remeber we are not allowing our snakes to be mounted by the neighbors dog just because "love is in the Air"

In two years I will (assuming the snakes cooperate) be doing an integrade.

I have a reason why I want to do the particular integrade I'm going to be doing, but that reason is not profit.

If I end up giving the excess offspring away to coachwhip keepers, the integrade will still have been worth it for me because of what I want to test.

And no, the integrade I'm doing is not one that ever happens in the wild (though no doubt plenty of keepers have done this integrade before, in fact I've seen snakes that this integrade)

Hybrids - at some point I may do a corn/mbk hybrid to see how the F2 generation comes out. I've heard that they end up looking like high contrast jungle corns, but I've never seen a picture of one.

I saw an F1 amel jungle corn (cal X corn) and the F1 I saw of that cross looks quite a bit different than the many generation jungle corns (it looked like a cal king but with chains as the bands hit the belly) - so it will be quite interesting, I think, to see what F2 corn X mbk look like in comparison to the F1.

I also think it would be neat to see how the davis/mendota and the ghost (cal king single simple) genes affect jungle corn patterns, but I'll let someone else try that.

But anyway - I think if the results look good then there is a market. If the results don't look good then there isn't a market.

Just properly label them.
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11.14 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
2.3 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
1.1 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus nasicus (W Hognose)
4.2.14 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

"If I end up giving the excess offspring away to coachwhip keepers, the integrade will still have been worth it for me because of what I want to test."

For what food? why would ya breed snakes to end up feeding them to other snakes? I understand why you would if the offspring was not feeding.
GOD BLESS
CHRIS
Captive Bred Reps BY: CHRIS FLOWERS

Yeah - for food.
I could use them as feeders for my own kings of course, but I'd rather give them to a keeper of herps that is more of a reptile specialist than kings are.

The purpose of creating the integrade is not to create feeder snakes, kings are not productive enough for that - too few eggs.

The purpose is to hold back a few.

Excess I will try to sell, but if they are buttock ugly and no one thinks they are worth the price of shipping, I know a guy in the Bay Area who breeds coachwhips, so ... it makes sense to let him have them as feeders.
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11.14 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
2.3 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
1.1 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus nasicus (W Hognose)
4.2.14 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

Laboradoodle says, “what?...”

LMAO
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Sorry if my explanation wasn't clear.

I want to do an integrade to try something out.
I do not need an entire clutch of babies for what I try, I'll only need a few. Unless only a few eggs hatch, there will be excess.

If the results are not marketable, then I can give the excess away as prey.

If the results are marketable, then of course I'll take money for them.

Is that a little more clear?
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11.14 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
2.3 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
1.1 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
0.1 Heterodon nasicus nasicus (W Hognose)
4.2.14 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

makes sense to me ! and the Labradoodle is glad this aint the python forum,great lookin dog !!!!!probably smart as a whip!?!

Thanks for all the responses people. I appreciate it. So I'm thinking, maybe I'll produce some pure bred kings and hybrids to experiemnt, even if they arn't with much.

Now for my next question. Assuming I made an intergrade or hybrid, how far can I go with a Florida king until the offspring are infertile. If I bred it with a milk would they be? or what about a corn? I'm not saying I am going to, but incase one day I decide to, I'll know.

thanks

Well as the resident hybrid expert i already answered your question on the values. The hybrids sell for a lot more. Others opinions are not that well informed. Second you will not get infertility with snake hybrids like donkeys. Go to the hybrid forum and ask these questions as this is not the right forum And you will get better advice on there from people who work with and make a good living off hybrids..

http://forums.kingsnake.com/forum.php?catid=17

cheers!
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"