Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These are the first Red Axanthics I have ever hatched. Not bad odds from a het to het breeding! 3 Reds, 2 hets, and one normal.

I have only seen an adult in person once at Ralph's place a few years back, these guys are awesome in person. The side patterns are sick! Right out of the egg...

Take Care,
Oz
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OZZYBOIDS

If this is recessive, how do you know 2 are hets?

From what I understand, they are a co-dominant trait. The heterozygous show a black backed pattern. The homozygous have a silvery look to them with the black backed pattern. If you look at the bottom pick you can see a normal for a comparison.

W. Smith

Well, if their co-dom, then they're not hets (recessive)! I guess the "Axanthic" threw me, since non-reds are true recessive!

If you have a fire ball that createes white snakes, then the fireball could be called co-dom or visual heterozygous. This goes for all co-dom animals that when bred together, get a totally different snake. For example; yellow bellies, butters, lesser platinums, and mojavies all produce white snakes. In my opinion they are visual hets. Spiders and Pins are not visual hets, because you get nothing from breeding them to each other that is visually different from the parents, and makes them a dominant gene. I hope this helps, and it is just my opinion on the deal.

Actually if you go by the definition of heterozygous we are incorrectly limiting it in the ball python community.

Heterozygous really means having an unmatched pair of whatever genes you are talking about.

Heterozygous doesn't require any particular relationship between homozygous normal, heterozygous, and homozygous mutant appearances. That relationship is what determines the mutation type relative to wild type (recessive, co-dominant, or completely dominant). The genotype is only depending on if the pair (one from each parent) match or not.

So, not only is it correct to speak of a heterozygous albino (one albino mutant copy and one normal for albino copy of the gene pair at the albino locus), and also a heterozygous for the pastel gene (a visual het), it's even correct to talk about a het for a completely dominant gene like spider or pinstripe might turn out to be. If a spider phenotype animal has one copy of the spider mutant version of the gene at the spider locus paired with a normal copy of the same gene it has a heterozygous genotype of the spider locus.

By realizing which co-dominant and perhaps some day dominant snakes are heterozygous you can use the same rules to predict their breeding results that you learned with recessive. For example, het X het = 25% chance homozygous, even if the hets are pastels and the homozygous are super pastels.

>>Well, if their co-dom, then they're not hets (recessive)! I guess the "Axanthic" threw me, since non-reds are true recessive!

Whether your dealing with co-dominant(incomplete-dominant),or recessive...If it only has one allele,then it IS a het.Visual or not.
The word "recessive" refers to the way one allele is expressed(or rather isn't../ie,it disappears visually.)
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Charles Glaspie

I think everyone is on the same page, just expressing it differently! So the "red axanthic het" is a visual one, not a true recessive one! "Red axanthic het = co-dom

"Red axanthic het = co-dom"

It would be a little more precise to say that the Red Axanthic mutation is a co-dominant mutation type. There is some confusion with people/web sites using the co-dominant and dominant mutation type names where they should be using the genotypes heterozygous and homozygous. It would be totally incorrect to refer to Red Axanthic as the “dominant form” and Het Red Axanthic as the “co-dominant” form of this mutation. The mutation type is still co-dominant, it doesn't matter if you happen to be looking at a Het Red Axanthic (visual morph phenotype) or a homozygous Red Axanthic (a different visual morph phenotype), the mutation type stays the same. It's the relationship between the appearances of those genotypes that makes this a co-dominant mutation.

Very nice! Underrated morph in my opinion. Some nice crosses could be done with het reds with their black backs.
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Steve Smith
Midwest Reptiles
www.mwreptiles.com

They're awesome. I love black/grey/white snakes of any species. Just something about that crisp look. But if there was no established Red Axanthic morph, I would guess them to be axanthic cinnies. Same pattern with the color replaced by black and silver.

you know they do look alot like axanthic black pastels, oops did I let something out of the bag?
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Aren't these normal Axanthic? I thought red axanthics were well...more red?

whatever they are, they are gorgeous
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PHLdyPayne

>>Aren't these normal Axanthic? I thought red axanthics were well...more red?
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>>whatever they are, they are gorgeous
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>>PHLdyPayne

they will be...they grow into it
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Charles Glaspie

Congrats Oz, they look good.
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles

>>These are the first Red Axanthics I have ever hatched. Not bad odds from a het to het breeding! 3 Reds, 2 hets, and one normal.
>>
>>I have only seen an adult in person once at Ralph's place a few years back, these guys are awesome in person. The side patterns are sick! Right out of the egg...
>>
>>
>>Take Care,
>>Oz
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>> OZZYBOIDS

Congrats Oz...They look killer..You did hit on some decent odds there!...now onto the combos!
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Charles Glaspie

They are amazing in person!

Corey

Dude....those things are sick!! Probably one of the more underrated snakes out there!! The colors are just perfect!!! Congrats and a job well done man!

Now post up some more pics..........

Jared Horenstein

Congrats OZ! Those things are stunning.
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Tim and Monica Bailey
Bailey & Bailey Reptiles

Nice!!! Hopefully that's just the begining for this season!!!

Tom

BIGGG Congrats Brother!!!!!! Its about Darn Time...
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./