Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My suriname male regurged his second meal a two days ago. Before he regurged he was acting fine. The next day i noticed he was acting really wierd. Moving funny, just not my deaconn. He also looked to have vomited water, with mucus looking stuff in it. Kind of like urates. He was really greasy feeling, i am assuming the fat from the rat he puked up. Well anyways, his scales are all falling off as you can see from the pics. He is not moving like a normal snake. Everywhere i read, he looks to have IBD.(dont worry he is separated as a precaution) I have a fairly large collection, but he was my first snake and none of the rest are sick. wouldnt the others get sick first? he did breed this year, with a suriname female we got off some guy (mikes reptile bin) that we found out later he is scum. Could he have caught something from her? I treated him with 25mg of flagyl, to try to help if its parasites, and i have started him on 50/50 pedialyte/h2o to rehydrate him. I have a gazillion reptile med books and I am still having trouble diagnosing him! Any help would be great. I never read anything about snakes loosing their scales!! We are pulling our hair out and my babies time is getting shorter. He is my pride and joy, someone please help me!!

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1.1 Peruvian Redtails (Hera and Zeus)
1.2 Suriname Redtails (Deaconn, Grape Soda and Suri)
0.1 Argentine Redtail (Orio)
1.1 Crested Gecko (Illiana and Iziah)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Taz)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Clyde)
0.0.1 Burmese Python (Big Burm)
1.0 Albino Burmese Python (Lil Burm)
0.0.2 Whites Tree Frogs (Peakaboo and Fatso)
1.0 Argentine B/W Tegu (Rocky)
1.0 DH Sunglow (poss. Triple Het Moonglow) (Brutus)
0.1 100% Het Albino Columbian (Shakira)
0.1 Sugar Glider (Sydney)

eek. keep him away from everything else. far far away

Ive read about this on this forum some tiem ago and it had to do where the person bought their rats, something they were fed affected the snake in that way, do a search see what you can find.,
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1.4 various boas(Flicka,Felony,Nova,Alias,Alibi)
0.1 BRB Abalone; ABBI
1.0 Rott X (OSO)
2.0 cats (Simba, Morris)
fish & feeders
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I too have heard of bad rats changing the snakes color and all sorts of nasty stuff. I don't know if there is anything that can be done , just keep him away fgrom the rest of your collection. Raise the temps a bit and keep a eye on him. It is also possible he may have gotten something from the female he bred. What is her condition??
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HTTP://WWW.JPCBOAS.COM

The female he bred to is in healthy condition. She has scars that kind of appear to be like the stuff he has started with.one thing tho,her eyes, they seemed squenty from day one. now his eyes look the same. We have had her for quite a while about 2 years with no problem at all.BAD RATS?! wouldnt my whole collection be sick? we get everything from the same guy in NY (Frozen obviously) Where is that post? this is the 2 of them

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1.1 Peruvian Redtails (Hera and Zeus)
1.2 Suriname Redtails (Deaconn, Grape Soda and Suri)
0.1 Argentine Redtail (Orio)
1.1 Crested Gecko (Illiana and Iziah)
1.1 Bearded Dragon (Taz & Tinkerbell)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Clyde)
0.0.1 Burmese Python (Big Burm)
1.0 Albino Burmese Python (Lil Burm)
1.0 Albino Patternless Burmese Python (Streaker)
1.1 Bolivian Boas (Olivia & Oliver)
0.0.2 Whites Tree Frogs (Peakaboo and Fatso)
1.0 Argentine B/W Tegu (Rocky)
1.0 DH Sunglow (poss. Triple Het Moonglow) (Brutus)
0.1 100% Het Albino Columbian (Shakira)
0.1 Sugar Glider (Sydney)

Take him to a vet. If she has similar symptons/signs or what happened i would think she may have a virus that her body fought off but she may still have passed on. I would definately take him to a vet though.
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Vince Martino

0.2 Colombian Red Tail Boas (Normal)
1.0 Albino Colombian Red Tail
1.1 Het Albino Colombian Red Tail
1.1 Nicaraguan Boa
1.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1 Spider Ball Python
1.1 Het Albino Ball Pythons
0.1 Okeetee Cornsnake
1.0 Snow Corn
1.1 Dalmatian/Normal Crested Geckos
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors

My first thought would be that his scales are falling off because he has been covered with his own digestive bile. As far as whether that is the cause of the rest of his ailments, I have no clue. I guessing you have rinsed him off at the vary least. If not I would do that straight away. I would think a vet would be in order if that isn't his only problem.

OK...... First you need to give, "the rest of the story"

You said this was his "second" regurge.

How long had it been inbetween these regurges?

I notice you keep him in a sweater rack.

Those can sometimes get very warm/hot in the summer. Could he have gotten over heated? If he did that "could" have caused the first regurge. Feeding him too soon after the first could have caused the second one

Overheating could cause the abnormal movement he's been doing. If he did get overheated then this abnormal behaviour may or may not be premanent. It would depend on how long and how overheated he got.

Exposure to toxins could have caused it.

BTW healthy snakes don't get sick, with such "severe" symptoms, overnight. It's more likely what's happening is environmental. Also with such a small space he could have suffered "head trama" when he regurged.

The loss of scales is most likely due the the digestive juices that came up with the rat. It doesn't really look like his scales are coming off to me. Yeah, there's discoloration and you see those "flakey" bit of skin in the tub. I guess the best way to describe what "could" be happening is....... He was "burned" by the digestive juices and oils when he regurged. The flaking of scales would be simular to a human getting burned and then peeling. From what I can see it's not a "scale" that's come off, but bits of skin from the scales.

If you're 100% sure that the temps have been "good" then you need to look at your rat supplier. If you've gotten all your rats from the same source and nobody else has gotten sick...Well, if nobody else has gotten sick you need to "recheck" your temps.

Temps that are too high or too low are the cause for most regurges. Next in line comes feeding a food item that's too large. After that would be exposure to toxins. It's rare that you get a rodent from a "reputable" supplier that's contaminated. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I'm saying it's very rare. I actually haven't heard of any contaminated rats from reputable suppliers.

BTW who do you get your rodents from?

Reguardless of what went wrong.... Something did go wrong!

TAKE HIM TO THE VET!

If you're not a vet.......and you're not or you wouldn't be here asking questions.

Stop self medicating your snake!!! Medicating your snake without knowing "exactly what's wrong", COULD KILL HIM!!

All of my snakes are hooked up to herpstats, set at an 88 degree constant (hot spot), so i dont think over heating could be a factor. The snake next to him is just about the same size so, if he over heated, i think so would the other one.The room also rarely goes above 85 degrees. It is possible about the head trauma thing. I waited 2 weeks in between attempted feedings. I figured he was just being moody because we fed the rest of the snakes after him.( he is weird about commotion in the room always has been)Flagyl is just a dewormer. It is safe and i got the proper dosage from a vet.Very slim chance it could kill him considering you can safely dose up to 250mg/kg and I have only been giving him 25mg q 24hr total! I figured the scale/skin loss was from the vomit. As I said the female he was with is healthy at the time, as for before we had her... i dont know. In my care (2yr) she has had no signs or symptoms of what is going on with my deak. As far as rats go... we buy in bulk. We have bought from him for the past 3 yrs, with no problems. I guess it could be one bad rat, but really, what are the chances? As i said, EVERYONE eats them. Toxins are in no way a posibility. Thankyou everyone very much for all your quick responses to help save my Deaconn! Any help is good help! Thanks again
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1.1 Peruvian Redtails (Hera and Zeus)
1.2 Suriname Redtails (Deaconn, Grape Soda and Suri)
0.1 Argentine Redtail (Orio)
1.1 Crested Gecko (Illiana and Iziah)
1.1 Bearded Dragon (Taz & Tinkerbell)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Clyde)
0.0.1 Burmese Python (Big Burm)
1.0 Albino Burmese Python (Lil Burm)
1.0 Albino Patternless Burmese Python (Streaker)
1.1 Bolivian Boas (Olivia & Oliver)
0.0.2 Whites Tree Frogs (Peakaboo and Fatso)
1.0 Argentine B/W Tegu (Rocky)
1.0 DH Sunglow (poss. Triple Het Moonglow) (Brutus)
0.1 100% Het Albino Columbian (Shakira)
0.1 Sugar Glider (Sydney)

I think 88 degrees is too warm for a boa. I set my hot spots at 82 degrees. In such a small space he could have gotten over heated. Especially since he's on the top shelf.

His skin should return back to normal after he sheds. It could take up to 3 sheds, but normally only 1.

If you think he's got parasites you should take a fecal sample into the vet and have it checked. BTW boas can and have died from "worming medication".

I do volunteer work at a vets office. They treat exotics often. I've been helping out for 7 years now. So far, there have been 5 boas that have died from "worming medication" given by the owners. These deaths were comfirmed through a necropsy. I'm not sure what type they were given. I just know they died.

He was not on the top shelf, he is now because he is in a diferent rack in a different room isolated away from the rest of my collection. I have never had problems with my boas temps before and I have kept boas for several years. The dose I have him on is the lowest possible dose on one of the safest drugs on the market. When and if he defacates i will do a fecal on him. Until then, the flagyl is a precautionary measure. Thank you again for all your help.
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1.1 Peruvian Redtails (Hera and Zeus)
1.2 Suriname Redtails (Deaconn, Grape Soda and Suri)
0.1 Argentine Redtail (Orio)
1.1 Crested Gecko (Illiana and Iziah)
1.1 Bearded Dragon (Taz & Tinkerbell)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Clyde)
0.0.1 Burmese Python (Big Burm)
1.0 Albino Burmese Python (Lil Burm)
1.0 Albino Patternless Burmese Python (Streaker)
1.1 Bolivian Boas (Olivia & Oliver)
0.0.2 Whites Tree Frogs (Peakaboo and Fatso)
1.0 Argentine B/W Tegu (Rocky)
1.0 DH Sunglow (poss. Triple Het Moonglow) (Brutus)
0.1 100% Het Albino Columbian (Shakira)
0.1 Sugar Glider (Sydney)

Good Luck with your guy.

I hope he has a speedy recovery.

Anyone ever deal with them?
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1.1 Peruvian Redtails (Hera and Zeus)
1.2 Suriname Redtails (Deaconn, Grape Soda and Suri)
0.1 Argentine Redtail (Orio)
1.1 Crested Gecko (Illiana and Iziah)
1.1 Bearded Dragon (Taz & Tinkerbell)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Clyde)
0.0.1 Burmese Python (Big Burm)
1.0 Albino Burmese Python (Lil Burm)
1.0 Albino Patternless Burmese Python (Streaker)
1.1 Bolivian Boas (Olivia & Oliver)
0.0.2 Whites Tree Frogs (Peakaboo and Fatso)
1.0 Argentine B/W Tegu (Rocky)
1.0 DH Sunglow (poss. Triple Het Moonglow) (Brutus)
0.1 100% Het Albino Columbian (Shakira)
0.1 Sugar Glider (Sydney)

N/P
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1.1 Peruvian Redtails (Hera and Zeus)
1.2 Suriname Redtails (Deaconn, Grape Soda and Suri)
0.1 Argentine Redtail (Orio)
1.1 Crested Gecko (Illiana and Iziah)
1.1 Bearded Dragon (Taz & Tinkerbell)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Clyde)
0.0.1 Burmese Python (Big Burm)
1.0 Albino Burmese Python (Lil Burm)
1.0 Albino Patternless Burmese Python (Streaker)
1.1 Bolivian Boas (Olivia & Oliver)
0.0.2 Whites Tree Frogs (Peakaboo and Fatso)
1.0 Argentine B/W Tegu (Rocky)
1.0 DH Sunglow (poss. Triple Het Moonglow) (Brutus)
0.1 100% Het Albino Columbian (Shakira)
0.1 Sugar Glider (Sydney)