Reptile & Amphibian Forums

He's a nice feller....about 10 years old and 11-12ft long. Of course, he came with quite a few of his closest friends. Snake mite friends that is. He's quarantined, has been washed with Reptile Relief, soaked in soapy water, and the cage and area has been sprayed with Provent-a-Mite. I'm going to wipe the outside of all my other cages with PAM, too. Yikes...never had mites before. We fed him a F/T rabbit today that may have bordered on the edge of too large. I didn't guess very well when I ordered my frozen rodents. What is the best feeding arrangement for these big guys? We don't really want to feed him in his cage, but when we fed him outside of his cage, we weren't too keen on putting a recently fed burm back into his cage. All in all, everything worked out just fine, but I want a better plan. I just don't feel like I'm off to a grand start.

We feed in the cage. We hold the prey item (f/t) by the leg with hemostats, open the door just enough to get the prey item in the cage then hold the door against the prey items leg. This keeps the door between us and the hungery Burm.

If we are handling the snake we use a snake hook to get the snakes attention and let them know it's not feeding time. When the hook comes in, their feeding response usually goes away. Our hook is 40 inches long, not good for picking them up, but good for moving them around and getting their attention.

We're not saying this is the best way or the only way, find something that works for you.

Hope this helps and congratulations on your new burm.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

I feed in the cage as well. I open the opposite side of the cage his head is on, and drop in an F/T or live-but-recently killed-by-me (which is his favorite, and is absolutely the freshest way to go IMO). Then I dont move as he smells out and eats his food. The smell being in the cage is enough for them to become aggressive, and they should be left alone during this process. If you are a wiggle worm and cant hold still while they find their snax, cover the front of their cage before insertion of food. I make sure they eat before I head out for errandz or whatever though. That's my 2 cents, hope it helps you find your perfect way

3 Y 3 C 3

Sorry to hear about the mites, the Provent-a-mite should be all that you need. I don't recommend soaking snakes in soapy water because I believe that soap can dry their skin out.

I recommend feeding it inside its regular cage. I believe that there's more of a chance for a feeding response strike from a snake that has just been fed than there is from one that has yet to be fed.

"artinscales" has the right idea, as far as I'm concerned. Hook train it, don't feed with bare hands, feed inside their cage.

By using a hook to rub the snake's head & body, you're making sure its awake and letting it know that you are about to handle it, not feed it. The hook doesn't have to be big, strong, enough to lift the snake, just something long enough to keep hands out of reach (3ft or so).

My adult burms are about 9ft & 11ft. This is how I feed them:

1. Handle before feeding.
Both of my cages open at the top. When it's time to feed I open the top and most of the time my burms crawl out to me. Once their heads are about a foot or so out of the cage and have already made contact with my hand or arm, and I'm sure they know what's going on, I can safely reach in and pull them the rest of the way out.

I handle them for several minutes, sometimes letting them crawl around the room or outside for exercise. After several minutes I put them back into their cage for feeding time.

2. Feeding
I've got cheap "grabbers" like the ones sold for elderly/handicapped people to pick things up with. I use these to place rodents in their cage. If the snake won't eat F/T off the floor and needs to be enticed you can grab the rodent and stimulate movement, but most snakes eating F/T will eat rodents left on the floor. Sometimes it will take them a little longer to become interested in it but they usually do.

I'm ashamed to admit it but there are times when the only time I handle them is just before feeding. I've had these snakes since they were babies (3yrs old now) and have never had the slightest resemblance of of a strike or bite, feeding response or not.

Regardless of how your snake has been fed in the past, I believe that you can train it, condition it, to do the same thing mine do. Of course, as always, when handling a snake, especially one that size, your ability to read it, understand its actions, should be at a high level. And never handle or feed it alone.

Have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Another question...(Y'know, I can keep this thread alive forever!)

He has a lot of loose skin and I was wondering if he was a tad underweight. The skin is springy and I don't think he's dehydrated, but it seems to be laying in 1-2" folds in some parts of his body. I fed him a rabbit that I think was way too big. I got it from from supplier and it was probably just over 6#. It took quite a while to eat that thing. Now he has a sizable lump and is just laying there digesting (no problem, stay in the cage and let the PAM kill some mites). He surely won't eat again for 2-3 weeks, but what would be a more appropriate meal for him?

Since it had mites and loose skin I'd say there's probably a good chance that it is underweight. Both are signs of neglect. At 11 - 12ft I feel it should weigh somewhere around 45lbs. A few months of proper feeding and exercise should get it back into shape if that's the case. Can you post a pic?

As for prey size, I'm not good at saying what weight prey a certain size snake should have, I never weigh any of my prey and raise my own. I can tell by looking at them, though.

I prefer feeding them prey that is less than 1 1/2 times their body diameter. Actually, I prefer to give them a few smaller prey versus one large, like 2 - 3 prey that are about the same diameter of its body or just a tad bigger.

Assuming that the snakes you already had are in good condition from your feeding regimen, I say use the same ratio for this burmese.

Some people like feeding large meals every 3 weeks or so and some like feeding smaller meals more often. I feed smaller meals more often to try to keep their body's vitamins & nutrients to a steady, constant state instead of big fluctuations.

I'd prefer to feed it two 3-pound rabbits instead of one 6-pounder, if those sizes are compatible with the snake's size.

A pic of the loose skin and one of the prey lump it has now would be helpful.

Sorry for the rambling, I hope I didn't confuse you more.

Take care!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Happy Hillbilly has it right. It's better to feed a couple of smaller meals than one large one. I have three big girls, 11 ft, 12 ft and 15 ft. The 11 and 12 footers get XXXXL guinea pigs about 2#, two at a time every 10 to 14 days. We've only the 15 footer for a couple of weeks (Rosie in the post below). The first time we feed her, I gave her 2 XXXXL gp's. No lump, still wanting more. She ate the 2nd gp backwards, way too small. We ordered XL rabbits, they are about 6-7#, nice lump.

We hear about people stuffing huge prey items(large pigs) into their snakes. I don't feel that this is healthy and it can't be comfortable to them. Think about how we feel the evening of Thanksgiving lol.

Remember what Happy Hillbilly said, dont'ever feed your snake alone!!!

Good luck, hope this helps.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

No, My husband helps me with feeding/handling. My rodent guy asked my for a poundage on the rabbit and I said, "Heck I don't know, 5-6 pounds?" It was wrapped while was defrosting, but the size looked OK. It wasn't until the snake was actually eating it that I realized it was oversized. At that point, what do you do? The first feed, I'm embarrassed to say, was a fiasco on our part and a bit foolish. We fed him outside of his cage and then the time came to put him back. I looked at my husband and said, "Y'know, I don't think it's supposed to go like this." I had visions of this unfamiliar, very large snake taking out my arm or worse, the side of my face. Well, I ended up throwing a comforter over his head, using a hook to manipulate it around him a bit, and then we picked him up and put him back. I don't think he weighs 45 pounds, LOL! I haven't weighed him yet, but he feels like 30-35. After he was back, I knew then and there that I was NOT going to be a burm statistic, there are going to be NO SFE's here, and we've got to get a plan together. Plus, my 11yo daughter just adores this snake and he must, must, must be safe! I'll try to get a pic posted.

Thanks, guys. You really don't know how much I appreciate it. I'm sending you all virtual, manly flowers and chocolate!

Laura

I measured & weighed my female burm tonight to see how far off I was, to try to give you a better idea of where yours should be. Mine is only a tad over 10ft, not 11ft like I said earlier. At 10ft long she weighs 35lbs and is 6in. in diameter.

I personally feel that mine is about the appropriate size/weight (But, don't we all? Hahaha!!!). Some people think burms are supposed to be fat but I disagree. Healthy (stout), yes, but not fat. But not slender, either.

If your burm is 11 - 12ft I think that somewhere between 40 - 60lbs max. would be a good weight. Now, that's just my personal feelings.

> > > "It wasn't until the snake was actually eating it that I realized it was oversized. At that point, what do you do?"

Let it eat. LOL! They're good at knowing how to take care of things if the prey is too large, and it will be less traumatic on the snake than if you were to intervene. And less dangerous for you.

I wouldn't worry about it, it'll be fine. They can eat sizes that you'll swear they can't.

I got a kick out of reading about the feeding. I could picture you & your husband dealing with it. Good thinking on the comforter over the head trick.

If your a bit nervous, your normal. Give it the respect it deserves, read it's behavior while handling/feeding, maintain your confidence, and you'll be fine.

Earlier you said something about the previous owner tried giving it away to the local serpentarium, were you talking about the Reptile World Serpentarium in St. Cloud?

We just got home from Apopka and we went to the serpentarium while we were there. I grew up in Apopka and that was the first time I've ever been to Mr. Van Horn's place. He's mostly got venomous which I dabble in. I got to spend some quality time with him discussing several things. I was really impressed with how down to earth he was & thoroughly enjoyed our talk. Seemed like a super nice guy.

Thanks for the beautiful (manly) flowers & delicious chocolate! LOL!

Ya'll take care!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

These are probably the strangest assortment of pics I've ever posted anywhere, but now you guys can help me determine feeding and weight. I'm still trying to figure out the image gallery here, but I have a shot of the lump two days after feeding, some loose skin near the tail, and a full shot that's a bit overexposed. I haven't weighed him yet, but he feels underweight to me, comparing him to my 15# 6 1/2 ft BCI. I wouldn't have handled him so soon after feeding, but he wet his cage and it simply had to be done. He gets a bit 'pushy' with his coils when he's on the ground, but is fine being carried.

I'm actually embarrassed to think that's actually on the Internet . I'd like to think I'm smarter than that!

That's the one! He is a nice guy. I haven't been out to his place in about 7-8 years, when my girls were younger. I remember the huge iguana cage and the awesome gator he had. Apparently he wasn't interested in this snake because he just didn't have the room and already had a burm or two. And by the way, I've been in the Orlando area for about 25 years, so I'm very familiar with Plymouth. We're in Longwood and my youngest daughter's nest friend lives in Apopka. Sure does look different now, doesn't it?

Had to post another pic because the other was so overexposed. This one is inside and shows his nice color. His eyes are a bit odd to me, though. You can't see it on the photo, but I'll ask the vet about it when we get him microchipped. It's like his sockets are too roomy for lack of a better way of putting it. This guy also wets a lot. I've barely had him a week and he's passed water and urates two-three times. Weird. I plan to deworm him as soon as the mite chemical business settles down. So far, I haven't seen any visible mites, but we're not slacking on the treatment yet.

He's pretty!

Yeah, I'd say his meals can be a pound or so smaller. Quite a lump he's got there but I'm sure it didn't hurt him any. I'll bet he was looking for a fine cigar to smoke after that meal. Hahaha!!!

You're going to get some different opinions on whether or not he's underweight but I'll stand by my belief that he's pretty close to what he should be, maybe a tad underweight, but not much.

The loose skin could be a combination of him once being overweight and lack of exercise. I don't know if it's eye sockets could've been stretched by being overweight or not. I don't know what to make of them.

Before I forget, I, personally, would hold up on any worm/parasite treatment unless the vet felt it was really necessary. I beleive in letting nature take care of those things with proper diet & cage setup. Those treatments also kill beneficial organisms, which then require more intervention/treatment from man (humans). But, that's just me, my 2 cents' worth.

About his discharges, has he been drinking a lot of water? For one thing, I'm sure that big meal is pretty much forcing everything else out of his stomach. Plus, I think that's fairly common with bad mite infestations, but I may be wrong on that.

I don't think I'd be too concerned for it happening 2 - 3 times, in a week or so. If it continues and you don't see him taking in a lot of water, then I'd start thinking more about it. If he was dehydrated, which I'm just about willing to bet he was, then he's probably drank a lot of water and will pass it fairly quickly.

Oh, when I was encouraging you to go ahead & take the burm did I tell you about how much worse their defecations are than any other snake? Hahahaha!!! I just cleaned both of my burms' cages and, wow, they're ROTTEN!!! Peeeeeeuuuuuuuuuu!!! Hahahaha!!! Got any enemies? Smear it inside their car. Nah, just kidding! (about smearing it in someone's car, but not about the aroma) Hahahaha!!!

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American