Reptile & Amphibian Forums

if you cross a jungle carpet python with a norm. ball python are those cool and does anyone buy them?

no, not cool. IMO!
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Thanks
Chad Ramsey
onetonyj@yahoo.com

Please don't. Too many crazy crosses out there already.
These 2 would never meet in the wild so it's not like it could be a naturally occurring intergrade. One is from Australia and one is from Africa. One is semi-arboreal and one is terrestrial.
Some may buy one just to have a freak animal but IMO, I would not purposely try to breed these mutts in the hopes of finding a paying customer.

I don't like hybrids. They weren't meant to be bred together in the wild. This might be a little controversial but I am a Christian and a firm believer in the process of creation by one entity, God and God only. In the first book of the Bible, Genesis, it states that: "And God said, 'Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to their kind.' And it was so." Like I said, I know this is going to be controversial but I believe, according to what is said in the Bible, that God created animals that were to be bred to its own kind. For example, God created Ball pythons to breed with other ball pythons and for carpet pythons to breed with other carpet pythons. I feel this is the way God intended for it to be and that is the way it should stay. Say what you will but this is my opinion. Am I saying it is a sin to produce hybrids, no, but I do think that it was not intended to happen and I therefore do not think that they should be produced.

as far as the above mentioned hybrid goes, its been done already. AKA "Carpall"
But to each his own.

Jeff

what's god think of morphs/ breeds?........

.......like dogs and cats .........well then they breed cats like ( african )house cats to bobcats and lynx or other wild cats......wolves to dogs and coytes to dogs....

.......if that's ok...they are the same ""of kind""....

then a snakes a snake......

............almost all North American snakes can hybridize.......yet people don't like it.......

..........I like morphs and hybrids in snakes to a point.......

carpet x chondro is one thing but carpet x balls I wouldn't do...

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I agree to disagree with what you have written. I am a Christian and I feel our God not only created life but also created the means for life to change. I know you would agree our God is omnipotent and it seems perfectly logical that evolution is God's creation and not Mr. Darwin's. Evolution drives our hobby. Without a mechanism for change where would all the morphs be? Hybridization does occur in the wild. Hybridization is just another means of speciation and is a process created by our God for life to change. Men assigned species names to organisms. God has absoluetly nothing to do with assigning species names? I believe you are taking Biblical scripture out of context which is a very easy mistake to make. "According to their kinds" could just as easily be more general such as snake x snake, lizard x lizard, bird x bird.

However, my personal ideals tell me a jungle carpet python x ball python hybrid shouldn't be attempted. I have a feeling this hybrid would be very difficult to produce and may also have a great chance of being sterile/infertile.

Brad Ratliff

Like I said, I knew this would be controversial. I that I do not believe it is a sin but that it was not intended to happen. I believe God intended balls to breed with balls and and carpets to breed with carpets. Do I think it's morally wrong, no, but I don't feel this was intended to happen. These are my opinions and I am not forcing them on to anyone. I didn't mean for this to get out of hand. I am not opposed to a little Biblical debate but I think we should let this one go. We each have our own opinions and I am not opposed to you having your own. You may think that I am taking the Bible out of context, however I do not feel the same. Like I said, to each his own. I will now step out of this conversation and let it go.

while I normally stay out of religous debates this one I couldn't. First I am a christian but believe god gave us a choice to change our destiny as we saw fit as long as it doesn't break His laws. Taking a stance that balls and carpets shouldn't be bred because there is no chance of these ever meeting in the wild can be a close minded position. Why do I say this? Well, people use the arguement that if God wanted me to fly he would have given me wings. On the same token most peoples responce is that god gave us the brain power to create flying machines aka planes. Why did He give us this power? Perhaps it was to travel teh planet in order to take objects or animals from different parts to assimilate them in one area. With this stand-point it would be logical that god knew that as times passed, we would find other uses for the animals that He put on this planet for our use. For those to say that god is all knowing but yet couldn't have forseen our utilization of animals for a monetary gain is crazy.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

the brain power to creat weapons of mass destruction as well, but that doesn't make it right to use them. If the hybridization of a species does nothing to better or improve a it what is the point. Creating crazy hybrids only makes reptiles breeders look just a little bit weirder in the eyes that don't share our passion. And I don't think you can compare morphs to hybrids. But thats just my opinion.

Jeff

VERY good points. What a great point of view as well!!!!!
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Thanks
Chad Ramsey
onetonyj@yahoo.com

That was my point exactly. Although we have the power, we should not do it. God gave us free will and we can do what we want, to an extent, although it may be against what He wants. I don't think you can compare morphs to hybrids. Hybrids could possibly weaken the animal whereas morphs do not do that. God did not intend for a carpet python to be bred to a ball python, although He knew it would happen. We did this because of the free will He has given us. I don't think it's morally wrong to do this but I think that it should be avoided. Are we going to go to hell for this, I don't think so, but like I said, I dont think it should be done.
I knew this would cause some controversy but I think that sometimes it's needed and I thought it would be interesting to see some people's religious viewpoints in the reptile world.

good point but the one thing that I also stated was that while taking advantage of free will you must abide by His laws at all times. Creating a hybrid does nothing to break any law or rule created by god but blowing up millions of people for no reason does.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

It does not break any rules and it is not a sin, but like I keep saying God did not intend for it to be done. If he had, he would have put carpet pythons and ball pythons on the same continent.

and i go back to the statement if he wanted us to fly or go 70mph he would made us birds or cheetahs but he didn't so I guess everyone that gets on a plane or in a car is doing something that they shouldn't. The only way you can say that he didn't want them to breed is if they wouldn't. It's amazing that no matter how different some people think these animals are, many of these python species breed with very little added help by us.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Granted it may not be written that is wrong to cross breed animals of the same species, but nowhere is it written that it should be done either. As a species we have through-out history put our wishes above those of the lord and as a consequence have seen severe damage done to our planet. Now I am not saying that hybridizing pythons or boas is going to somehow ruin the world, but it doesn't do anything to make it better either. Dogs and cats have been cross bred for centuries, but the responsible breeders have done so as to improve or define the breed. In essence making it better. But let me ask you, if you where a professional dog breeder lets say, and someone post a question on the dog forum about breeding a chiauha (taco bell dog)and a Great Dane what would you reponse be?

Jeff

>>Granted it may not be written that is wrong to cross breed animals of the same species, but nowhere is it written that it should be done either. As a species we have through-out history put our wishes above those of the lord and as a consequence have seen severe damage done to our planet. Now I am not saying that hybridizing pythons or boas is going to somehow ruin the world, but it doesn't do anything to make it better either. Dogs and cats have been cross bred for centuries, but the responsible breeders have done so as to improve or define the breed. In essence making it better. But let me ask you, if you where a professional dog breeder lets say, and someone post a question on the dog forum about breeding a chiauha (taco bell dog)and a Great Dane what would you reponse be?
>>
>>Jeff

"Dogs and cats living together..mass hysteria!" ~Bill Murray-Ghostbusters

..but what about the breeds of dog that require artificial insemination and caesarean births?
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Charles Glaspie

See now to me thats just plain stupid. Its not bad enough that they can't have sex, they can't give birth either. What breeds are these that thou speaketh of. For this is blastomy and they shall be struck down! Blah, blah blah. Listen I am not a religious nut or anything. I just feel that if a good old ball python has been good enough for a thousand years, why fix what ain't broke. Besides I prefere doing it the old fashion way.

Jeff

P.S Seriously, what breeds of dogs are breed this way.I never heard of such a thing.

best example is the english bulldog. others are pugs and staffordshire bull terriers.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

just for the record staffordshire bull terrier are probably one of the most generally healthy dog on the planet. my moms been a vet for 35 yrs and has never seen a staffy litter be born by ceasarion

is she referring to the american staffordshire terrier or the staffordshire bull terrier, they are very easily confused in conversation (I am not saying she doesn't know the difference but that maybe she misheard you or misread this post). C-section births are very common, not the rule with this breed due to the mothers general small size and the very large size of the puppies head, the same problem that english bull dogs run into.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Hybrids have been naturally produced in the wild. Amazon Tree Boas have naturally crossed with Emeralds, Rhino Vipers have crossed with Gaboons.....IN THE WILD! I Guess Satan had his hand in that one.

I don't think anyone is desputing naturally occuring hybrids. I am sure that a lot of new species grew out of such crosses. But in nature if such a cross was not beneficial or was somehow defective it would not survive, thus ensuring that only the stronger traits would continue. I captivety alot of animals that would not stand a chance in hell survive to maturity and breed thus passing on less desirable traits. As breeders we are always talking about selective breeding to create the best Pastel or the lightest and brightest Bumble Bee, but suddenly go willy nilly when it comes to creating a hybrid of two different species. Why? Show me one captive breed hybrid that is better then the two species that it took to creat it. And I don't mean just because it looks better or different.

Jeff

Not natural, infertile, but for many uses it has served man way better than a horse or a donkey. I'm not advocating the python hybrids, just making a comment about the general topic that is being debated above.
Paul

>>Not natural, infertile, but for many uses it has served man way better than a horse or a donkey. I'm not advocating the python hybrids, just making a comment about the general topic that is being debated above.
>>Paul

...you should see the way they argue about their own origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid-origin
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Charles Glaspie

.....controversial at all, to those of us Atheists in the forum.

I'm not offended, I'm just amused.

What are your thoughts on dinosaur hybrids? I'm still on the fence on this one....lol

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

I am a lapsed Catholic so I'm a bit rusty on my Bible - but technically aren't all snakes "their own kind"? What makes them different? Someone else mentioned because they are on different continent - would that mean that it is wrong for an African to mate with an Eskimo - I mean there are just as many fundamental differences there?

Seriously -- why is it ok to hybridize animals that will help you plow your field, produce tastier meat, make a better companion pet, a neat new exhibit at the zoo or hybridize plants to produce bigger tastier fruits and vegetables, or hybridize chemicals so to cure or alleviate a myriad of diseases, etc. etc. etc. but it's not ok to hybridize a snake for a pet?

IMO - Nature has a way of taking care of itself if it shouldn't happen it can't. Take bestiality for an example - yeah I'd hate to got here but - its been happening for eons and as far as I know we have yet to see offspring from those type of pairings!! Cause nature takes care of itself.

I do think that those working with hybrids do need to take care and responsibility - but I wonder why some hybridization is acceptable and other hybrids unacceptable and who has the right to determine?

:::::getting off my soap box now::::::

.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

(CJBianco explaining the origins of the BP market.)
"In the beginning Bob created the Ball Python market. And the market was without morph, and wild traits were upon the industry. And Bob said, Let there be morph, and there was morph. And Bob saw the morph, that it was good; and Bob divided the morph from the wild trait. And Bob called the morph Albino, and the wild trait Normal. And the Albino and the Heterozygous Albino were the first investment.
-- Christopher 1:1-1:5"

Wow, I did not mean to start a religious war here. I just put down my opinion and I think we should all agree to disagree. All of you may think I'm too legalistic, but that's your opinion and I respect it. I didn't think this would turn into a "holy war" at all. I thought it just might be interesting to see what other people's religious points of view are. I have learned my lesson and will never bring anything religious up again. Please let me say, I am not mad at anyone. I think I've got one big "holy war" on my hands now.

wanted you to take the ball python inbreed the he** out of it to produce the next latest and greatest morph? Do you think God intended for there to be Albinos and Pieds and other morphs that barely resemble a ball python in the first place. If so why do you think God would be against breedng a ball python to a carpet python. Odds are they evolved from the same snake in the first place. Remember all the land on earth was one mass at one point.

I am gonna let the whole thing go now about me thinking that the carpall should have never happened. I really hope all of you do the same. I think I took the Bible out of its context. I'm sorry I ever brought this up and I'm going to leave all of you to say whatever you want about my beliefs. My beliefs are what I think. Did I ever trash talk what your beliefs are, Never. I don't think you have the right to trash talk mine.
Gettin' off my soap box now but can we please let this go. I apologize to everyone for even starting this. I hope we can all agree to disagree because arguing about it won't help this at all.