So we used to have a little group of "Ringers" they where your classic ringer, I recently saw in the KS Classifieds, an ad for a "Poor Mans Pied" this was unlike any ringer I have seen, and infact looks like a very Low White Pied, I am curious at what point does a Ringer actually become a Pied? I mean, a chunck of white, orange wash, pattern fuzzy around the orange wash, How closely related are Ringers and Pieds? or how different can they be? Ringers have always fascinated me, and nobody seems to know much about them, other than they are random, and not really related to Pieds, but I just can't seem to get over the fact that they are soo simular...Orange wash, white blotches, almost idential to what a pied would be, but on at a much lesser extreme... Whats the lowest white pied ever produced?
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com
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Ringers and Pieds...Question for you all
Replies (15)
I saw the ringer you are speaking about and it was the best I have ever seen as well. I think the solution lies within the chromosomes and the forming embryo. I think the piebald mutant allele and the mutant allele that produces a ringer pattern are closely related and posibly even the same mutation at the exact same locus on the chromosome. Here is my untested hypothesis:
The piebald gene has been proven inheritable because the mutation first occured in either an egg, sperm, or single celled zygote.
A ringer is formed from a mutation of the same gene as the piebald mutation after fertilization of a stem cell destined to become dermal tissue. All cells created via mitosis from the original mutant stem cell would also exhibit the piebald phenotype. The extent of the piebald pattern exhibited would be dependant on the point in development the stem cell mutated. The earlier the stem cell mutated the more mutant cells produced and more impressive piebald pattern. Therefore the ringer gene forms a piebald pattern yet is not inheritable because the mutation does not affect the gonads.
What do you guys think?
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Brad Ratliff
Ratliff Reptiles
Email
I saw the one you are talking about it and even though it is the best looking example of a ringer I have ever seen it is still just a ringer and not a PIED. I would love to have it in my collection but for just a hair more you can purchase a real pied.
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....I would rather have a Bottle in front of me.....than a Frontal Lobotomy....
Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.rkreptiles.net
www.ballpythonmorphs.net
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A ringer does not become a pied until it produces pieds when bred. Which means a ringer never becomes a pied. I have a very low white pied but I have seen a few even lower white than mine.
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John Vandegrift
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There is only 2 things u got in this world, Your Word & Your Balls !
pieds have not only white patches randomly spread on the body, but even the pattern of the not white parts is modified into a different one.
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www.qualitysnakes.it
The normal colored pattern on a pied will usually have a light stripe on the spine, with two darker stripes on either side. These are not patterned as a genetic stripe, but have similar characteristics. This pic may help explain it. Even low white pieds have a very atypical pattern and it also usually consists of some striping.
And just for good measure, a het pied with "the marker".
Brandon Osborne
Even the low white Pieds will have a normal head, random white patches (even if it is only the belly or a small part of its body), however, the remaining brown pattern on the body will be distorted in a swirl-like pattern.
On the other hand, even the most intense ringers will have the norml head, and varying amounts of white, but what I believe distinguishes them from being a real genetic pied is that the brown body coloration will have a normal pattern and not have the swirl pattern.
~Alan
Ringers are random - piebaldism is genetic.
A pied will always have a mixed up pattern and even the lowest white pied has an unmistakable pied belly:
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Tosha 
JET Pythons
(CJBianco explaining the origins of the BP market.)
"In the beginning Bob created the Ball Python market. And the market was without morph, and wild traits were upon the industry. And Bob said, Let there be morph, and there was morph. And Bob saw the morph, that it was good; and Bob divided the morph from the wild trait. And Bob called the morph Albino, and the wild trait Normal. And the Albino and the Heterozygous Albino were the first investment.
-- Christopher 1:1-1:5"
Eric Sandoval produced probably the best looking, Pied like ringer I have ever seen, and the kicker, if I remember correctly, was it came from a Pied breeding, and was actually a Het Pied.
I purchased a 100% het Piebald Male earlier this year that is a visible "ringer". He is around 1500 grams and has a full ring that is at least 4-5 inches long. I have a pic of him on my website http://www.kangaskritters.com/Ball_Python_Breeders.html
Otherwise he has a very normal body, not the piebald blurry pattern.
That's the one I produced. I just put a baby pic of him in the reply to Dave(EmberBall)
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www.ESReptiles.com
I got him from Ack's Exotic Pets earlier this year. Maybe you have some more information about him (hatch date, etc.). I didn't get much info. on him. He's nice and big, but doesn't like to eat. Only eaten like two or three times in the past 6 months. Doesn't lose weight though. He's around 1600 grams.
I got a female pied from Marvin Fowlkes also earlier this year and I'm excited about them breeding, but it doesn't look like the female will be big enough this year. I've gotten her up to say 700-800 grams, but time is running out. He's obviously big enough to go whenever.
I think he needs to lay off the rats for a while anyways, that guy is a monster. He's only two years old, hatched in Sept. of 05'. He hatched out of a pied x normal clutch.
Eric
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www.ESReptiles.com
I just checked my notes on him and I got him from Ack's on March 24, 2007. He weighed 1,647 grams. He shed on April 5, dropped to 1,597 grams on April 21 and finally ate for the first time (for me) on May 27. I weighed him on June 2 and he was at 1,632 grams. He ate again on June 5 and shed on July 25. That's his record with me for the past 5 months. He's very active, likes to soak and is very tame. Thanks for the note about when he was born, nice to know that information.
