Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what would you say this snake is?

Does not look like a morph to me it isnt a pinstripe or a genetic stripe at least it dont look that way to me. I have been told that if you have your incubator too hot the heat sometimes causes the babies to get s stripe allthough it is not genetic. I dont know how true this is but if it is true my guess is that it cooked too hot. Anyone else ever hear of the too much heat stripe thing?
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

Yep! Fluctuating temps often will give you various striping!

Is it for sure high incubation temp that contributes to striping and not low incubation temp? I'm asking because if some day I get to incubate genetic stripe eggs I want to do it at the end of the acceptable incubation temp range that promotes striping. I've seen some variation in the amount of striping in genetic stripes so wonder if the mutation isn't more of a strong tendency to stripe than a for sure thing and for best results you could help it along a little with the right incubation temp for optimal striping.

If anyone with the stripe gene is feeling really generous next clutch number the eggs and randomly draw them into two groups. Incubate one at 89.5 deg and the other at 87.5 and let us know if the babies look different. By the time I get the animals for this experiment it will be well into a new decade, lol.

Actually this might not be a bad experiment to do with caramel and super cinnamon too to see is there is a temperature component to the tendency of both of those to kink.

Lol. these are interesting theories but its GENETICS! thats kinda like saying that if you have a premature baby then their eyes will always be blue or have red hair.

As far as the kinking.... that's just in-breeding. A lot of people breed siblings and then siblings of siblings and stuff like that. It's been shown if you cross a black pastel and a cinny you should get a kink free black ball.

It doesn't help that breeders sell 'pairs' that are siblings for caramel albino and other recessives.
The caramel still could use some good out-crossing.

At least that's all my opinion... please dont hate me for it... lol

Most breeders (or should i say the two i have dealt with lol) will provide unrelated pair if you request it.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

"Lol. these are interesting theories but its GENETICS! thats kinda like saying that if you have a premature baby then their eyes will always be blue or have red hair."

Sometimes genetic produces direct outcomes like eye and hair color and sometimes environment and genetics work together like having a gene that increases your likeliness to develop cancer but doesn't guarantee that everyone with the gene will get cancer.

"As far as the kinking.... that's just in-breeding. A lot of people breed siblings and then siblings of siblings and stuff like that. It's been shown if you cross a black pastel and a cinny you should get a kink free black ball."

I believe that the kinking is a tendency of the genetics like the spinning in some but not all spiders because:

1. A major breeder reported that about half the imported caramels where kinked.
2. It still happens often with the caramels and super cinnamons in spite of outbreeding.
3. You don't hear of the het or possible het siblings being kinked and they should be just as inbred (or not) as their caramel/super cinnamon siblings.

"It doesn't help that breeders sell 'pairs' that are siblings for caramel albino and other recessives.
The caramel still could use some good out-crossing."

We should absolutely keep trying outbreeding but based on the above observations I'm not at all sure it will help. The confusing part is that this isn't an absolute like all caramels/super cinnamons are kinked etc. It does appear to happen very often but then you have reports like from Morph King last year of large numbers of caramels with no kinks and BHB reporting large numbers of super cinnies with no kings so what where they doing differently to avoid the kinks? Both I believe pointed to cross lines but others have tried that and still gotten kinks so was there anything else that was different?

"At least that's all my opinion... please dont hate me for it... lol"

Forums are great places to discuss opinions!

My question is, why does it seem like it is always the visual morphs that a kinked and not the normal looking ones?

Tom

One explanation is that the same mutant gene that makes the morph visual is also making it kinked. If kinking is just part of the mutation (like the color/pattern etc.) then the question is why aren't all members of those mutations kinked. We like absolutes so it's hard to deal with these sporadic tendencies. But the exciting part is if we can find out why some aren’t and change whatever needs changing to avoid the kinking.

I'll take it and let you know by next year!
LOL!

Nice Ball!

Andy
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shes going to breed for me this season, right now she is 1100g and i have had her since 120g. I never thought she was a different morph, just pretty, but with all the talking im unsure if someone had a differnt opinion. I see some resemblance to the harliquin, but i dnot know enough about that morph and its not in my bible(vpi)... what would you breed her to

I would say it is a ball python until you breed it and prove the gene....if there is something genetic about this snake. It is nice looking, but nice looking does not make it a genetic 'morph'.
You need to produce the same traits of this snake before it is anything other than a ball python. Doing so by breeding it to other snakes would answer your own question.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

non-genetic stripe......thousands of them around.....bred to some will throw all normal babies....bred to the right ball will unveil babies with the same or partially the same partial striping........

.......try yellow-belly.......everyone else did.........

........I bred 2 of them...one I killed the clutch....one I bred to spider.......(yellow-belly were all wussies at the time).....and got pastels....guess I messed up and threw in pastel first.....oops.....

.......

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.....too many BIG girls.........

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Only one way to find out if the strip is genetic, breed the snake. Heres mine, shes 3000 grams (pic is from last season). The stip is more then likely just a freak thing, but doesn't hurt to breed her. She just ovulated today, so hopefully she will lay a large clutch.

Kyle