Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Spent most of this week talking with rancher in Jones, Nolan, Mitchell and Wise co. out of the 10 I spoke with 7 had this to say. They new nothing of the new law and did not care.
7 had problems with snake hunters trespassing in the past. 5 had fences cut rocks moved off hillsides, tanks over turned and 1 had saddles and tack stolen all by snake hunters. Nolan co weekend of the round up.
Snake hunting on the ranches.
4 said no out right the 3 reasons were given
1 afraid of being sued if the hunter got hurt
2 Trash left on the land
3 Gates left opened or closed no one asked to hunt
1 said we all look like a bunch of dope smoking hippies and were the rudest people he has ever met.
None care about the snakes. Was able to get permission from 6 if I stop by and show them what I find. 2 will go with me or let me hunt the ranch roads at night as long a as I sign a release. I thing most will allow us to hunt if we ask before we trespass and will take care of the land, and sign a release. I started with these counties because they don’t have many illegal crossing there lands. Nolan co ranchers are the hardest ones to talk to as roundup hunters have caused trouble in the past.Hope this is a little help

People on this forum as rule would not trespass, that is why we would hunt the ROW. I would bet the people that are likely to trespass are also the ones with pump sprayer full of gasoline.

We need to work on our image and let it be known that recreational herpers are not trespassing hippies that litter all over the place.

Lance

Sounds like we are suffering for some of our past mis-deads, but it mostly sounds like we're suffering from being lumped together with the round-up folks.

Am I reading this correctly? Were most of their past problems and current concerns tied to hobby collectors and observers of live herps, or rattlesnake round-up rustlers?

Thanks for your efforts at building bridges!

From what i was able to gather it was from the round up folks.no need for road hunters to do any of those things.Most were afarid of a law suite if we were to get hurt on there land.Nolan countie ranchers are the ones who have had the most issues with snake hunters. They also alow the Sweetwater jacees to hunt as they have insurance.Something we dont have.A few complained of spot lights wakeing them up at night.1 of his dog being hit. It looked to me as if anything bad happened it was snake hunters fault

The spotlights may well have been some of us. Was that ranchers house near any cuts? I know of several locals in my area that take great offense at careless spotlighting. We need to VERY careful where we point our lights. We can't afford to be irritating locals.

it was and he said that if when he drove out to talk with them they would have told him what they wee doing he would not have cared.they speed off then he noticed several large rocks pushed off the cut almost in the road. had to call the countie to remove them. My 7 yr old granddaughter made the trip with me.She helped a lot with some of the ranchers .she told themshe liked to see all the animals at night. she found a rat snake at one ranch where the rancher said he had not seen a snake all summer ,we spent over 2hours with this rancher.looks to me like we have lots of fences to mend.We may try far west Texas in Sept
im curios to see if the issues are the same.i belive untill the law is changed this is the only way we are going to be able to hunt oe take pictures with out any hassles

they speed off then he noticed several large rocks pushed off the cut almost in the road.

That REALLY pisses me off. There is no excuse for destroying habitat just to try and find a snake or two. Not to mention the fact that it created a possible hazard and costs tax-payer (my) money to remove. We should actively shun and oppose any fools that would pull crap like this.

Not much i could say.this was a jones county rancher.looks like we have to work at cleaning up our image if we want the landowners support .it only takes 1 bad apple to ruin it for everyone.may be some of the herp clubs can see about passing along do and donts of hunting on pvt land.

All this also points out the importance of making it clear who we are. Sounds like most (although not all) of the bad reputation of herpers is not from herpers, but instead from people we despise just as much as the ranchers do. Seems like belonging to some kind of, say, herping organization that serves to represent who we are & what we do to ranchers might help a lot in this. But I probably can't name an organization.

" belonging to some kind of, say, herping organization that serves to represent who we are & what we do... "

Here, here! An organization that has rules of conduct for membership, self policing and a public image mission. We know what that one is!

Not doubting at all what the ranchers have said. I would just point out that those counties are not frequented by grayband hunters so I suspect that most of those troubles were caused by either round-uppers or commercial collecters.
Personally I think HB2414/12 actually will increase this behavior because it will make it common to see lghts at night on private property. That will make it easier for tresspassers whearas before virtually any light at night was a tresspasser. Now when lights are seen it will need to be determined exactly which parcel they are on and weather they have permission. That could be quite difficult if they are at any distance from the road on the property of an absentee landowner, especially at night.

I plan to ask the same questions to Ranchers in Gray band counties.So far most of the ranchers have been willing to listen to my side of things. other than siging a release all they have ask is to keep the gates closed if they were closed to begin with and take our trash with us, and to be notifed that we were going to be on the land. I do belive a good pr blitz would help with most of the ranchers ive spoken too. If this new law causesd more trespassing then we will lose the ranchers. as it proves that they were right about snake hunters in general.

Here is an example of a Nolan county rancher lots of mis information
Herbie i passed your post alond and here were a few comments i thought you would like to see
We are tired of people cutting or jumping our fences and trespassing on our property.
>>That has nothing to do with this law. Trespassing and cutting fences was always illegal. It most certainly does. I have had people use the excuse that they saw something run across the road and were looking for it and that is why they were on my property.

FYI my property line goes to the center of the paved road on the East side of my property. I paid for this land and then donated a piece to the county for a county rd. I can show you my land plat, to prove it.
>>I love how he says his property goes to the center line then says he donated the land to the county for the road. Sounds like he needs to look at the county's version of his land plat. They now own the right of way and road. You are right, about one thing. The county does now own the land that I donated along with $10,000 dollars. The county now maintains the paved road.

Game Wardens are over worked, under paid and stretched way to thin to patrol every street in the state.
>>So, stretch them thinner by having then chase lights on private land? Brilliant.
We notify the game warden(s) when we are out night hunting for rabbits, hogs, bobcats etc. Try it, it works. I would rather the game warden check my hunting party, than let a potential poacher slip into the darkness.
Try leasing the land that adjoins the roadway that you favor. That is what deer, turkey, dove, quail and waterfowl hunters do.
>>Sounds like he's suggesting leasing the ROW. The property owners don't own and can't lease this land. Even if they could, it would not make hunting those areas legal. Heck, I have two pieces of highway property and I can't even herp on "my own" ROW (or use it for any other purpose for that matter). Lease the property inside the fence. quit grabbing for straws. You understood what was meant in my last post.

As far as I know, You do not even have to have a hunting license to pick up snakes, lizards, turtles or spiders.
>>As far as I know, this guy should get a clue before spouting off. Are you implying that you buy a license to pick up your snakes and lizards? Most of the folks that turn snakes in at the rattle snake round up in Sweetwater, do not have valid hunting licenses.

Sounds to me that you are whining because you have just realized that you are now going to have to pay to chase your quarry like the others on this BB.
>>Sounds to me like this guy is whining because the county actually accepted his donation and made a PUBLIC road along his property instead of just paving it for his own private use. see above Sounds to me like he is blaming herpers for every trespass and litter problem he has ever encountered. No just a small part of it. I wonder if ANY of those problems were caused by herpers. Yes, caught 2 in Sweetwater in 2005. Looking for snakes on my uncles place. Their excuse was they thought no one was at the ranch. We just happened to show up to feed for Turkey season. Blocked the car in with our trucks and took off on foot. Found them in the creek bed trying to hide.Had they had guns, I would have had them arrested.

Herbie
First let me take care of a legal matter. I am no longer an employee of the Teas Parks and Wildlife Department and any comments or opinions expressed are solely my on and NOT those of the Department.

With all do respect to you both, I was only having a little fun at fed's expense. I was in West Texas (Sierra Blanca) when snake hunters became a major concern for the department. And I must add that while I was in college I spent lots of my hard earned money running the roads around Juno and Comstock looking for my next "alterna" or "blairi". I also had friends who paid for college doing the same thing. I do not know what a pair of Davis Mountain kingsnakes will bring now but back then, $500 was about the going rate, at least in my area. During college, snake hunters were not required to have a hunting license; maybe the law required it, but no Game Warden worth his salt would ask someone for a license to hunt snakes. I say this to let fed know, I know something of his hobby (fever).

After college I was fortunate to be hired as a game warden and after 32 yrs retired. I can say that I can remember a time when game wardens cared less about “crazy” snake hunters. Well those times have passed. The growing pet trade markets have placed higher collection pressure on many species in Texas, from the horn toads to common rattle snakes. There are those in Texas who gather and ship jackrabbits to train greyhounds and make a good profit in the process. I don’t claim to understand all the interrelation intricacies and the symbiotic relations between species. I leave that to smarter people at a higher pay grade, but I do know that even those people can’t agree. Nevertheless, I have concerns that there are those who market and wholesale species of herps for profit and without regard to the survival of the species or interrelated (symbiotic) species. There in lies the problem. Intelligents within those groups is very hard to develop and requires extensive resources. There may not be any problem and my concerns may be unfounded, if so, I had rather my lawmakers err by over protecting those species until those economic pressures on nongame species are fully understood. Then I expect them to pass law and direct enforcement in those areas that can best protect non game species for future generations to enjoy.

That said, I add, if fed and his friends want to sway public opinion or change the law they will need to support their position with hard scientific facts and comparable research to offset any research provided by the state. The technique, he has proposed, seldom works and only tends to galvanize sides and close open doors of communication. (The point I was feebly trying to make in the prior post.)

I too know Rep. Hilderbran and I know him to be a man worthy of his position and he admirably represents his constituents. Nothing you can say will make me believe he did anything illegal. If he did, take your complaint to the Public Integrity Unit of Ronny Earle's Office, the Travis County District Attorney. If he did something illegal or unethical, they will have him out of office before his next election. If not, I suggest your tone down your insinuations.

Yes I would certainly say that rancher is under-informed.
All the people he had problems with sound like round-uppers or hunters.
Apparently he is not aware that a license is required to hunt snakes.
Seems to be under the impression that just because TPWD lumped snake collecters in with other hunters that we are the same. Live take without guns is so fundamentaly different from regular hunting that it amazes me anyone considers this a valid comparision.