Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I’m frustrated!

I met this girl in the pet shop were I get rats. She invited me over to see her 9 foot Boa (Columbian/?). She looked pretty healthy (the Boa) but her setup was non-existent. She had her loose in her room with a big bole of water in one corner. The room was very clean and had no orders of the obvious kind. I asked her were the snake’s cage was and she said she didn’t believe in cages. I asked how was the snake supposed to stay warm enough to digest it’s food and her answer was that she seemed to be doing just fine without an extra heat source, and seemed insulted from me asking. I asked her how long she had the snake and she said she got her off of Crags List 4 months ago. I also asked how the Boa was going to stay warm enough this fall and winter and she replied, angered, she uses a heating blanket on her bed in the colder months.

I tried to take a different approach and asked her over to see my collection. She came over and was appalled that I would put them is such small cages (60”x32”x24” for my 55”male). I tried to show her the concept of heat gradients and showed her how I check my temps with an inferred thermometer, but she was having none of it. I gave her a book on Boa care and told her it had some good pictures of Boas in it hoping she might read it.

My concern is for the Boa in a few months. She doesn’t want to listen to reason, and is pissed off that I would try and help her. Is this animal cruelty? Should she be reported or should I mind my own business? If someone wasn’t offering a dog adequate shelter from the weather, it’s a crime even if that person doesn’t know they are doing wrong.

Opinions please.

There seems to be no extreme,TO EXTREME anymore ......
That pretty well proves you dont need to be a serial killer to be SCARY !!

TnK

She seemed normal at first, ya know kind of young and ditsy but not weird. Then she tells me she’s a Vegan and wishes she could find a soy substitute for frozen rats! She’s nuttier than squirrel poo! I just think it’s a crime to have the snake suffer her stupidity.

a vegan snake... lol!

You've shown no evidence that the snake is "suffering".

You've shown no evidence that she's "stupid". We only have your opinion.

You simply come here and stated your "opinion" as how she "chooses" to keep her boa.

Exactly what's wrong with wanting a different choice of food for her amimal? She knows there's not a soy snake food, so she gives it rats. Sounds pretty smart to me. At least, she's a Vegan that realizes her boa needs a certian food and she gives it what it needs.

BTW you should tell her about this forum and the posts you've made. It's really sad to talk behind someones back. Especially since you don't know her very well and you're trying to turn others against her. It would only seem fair to allow her to come here and "defend herself".

I'm not a big fan of Vegans, because they do tend to be different in their beliefs, but they're still people too. They have the same needs and rights as everyone else. She's deserves the same respect that you would show any other person. Not just on this forum either.

Unless you have "real" evidence that this snake is being "abused" or is "suffering"........ Well, you get the point.

Have a nice day.

I have told her about this forum and I will tell her about my post. My concern is for the Boa that can’t tell us that it is cold. It can’t bark insistently because its needs aren’t being met. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area so the temps are not adequate for the snake (in the long term); it has been a rather cool summer. I would say the daytime temps inside her house are no more than 75deg and nighttime are a whole lot less 50s and 60s out side.

I made my post to ask peoples opinion on how to approach her and how far I should go if it didn’t work. Should I mind my own busses? After all it’s just a snake (sarcasm). I don’t care if she sleeps with it in her bed as long as the basic needs (temperature) are being met.

I thank you for your opinion, after all I asked for it.

OK, you said,"There seems to be no extreme,TO EXTREME anymore ......
That pretty well proves you dont need to be a serial killer to be SCARY !!"

I really don't understand that comment. Are you saying this person is "more scary than a serial killer os as scary"?

Let examine this.

She got a Boa. She keeps in it a large area. Granted it's her bedroom, but to each his/her own. She makes sure it's got water. She keeps it clean. The animal in question is in good health. She uses a heating blanket in the winter for extra warmth. Even though she's a Vegan she gives it dead rats. BTW I can't see a Vegan offering a live rat. That's why I keep saying dead rat. It would seem she has nothing but the best intentions for this animal. It doesn't appear to be mistreated or abused. It must be warm enough if it's digesting it's food properly. It would seem she wants only the best for her new pet.

I just don't see what makes her "scary".

I'd rather run into this girl in a dark alley, as opposed to a "serial killer".

She's just not "scary".

Now I can tell you what scary is....

People that give their animals minimal amounts of food to keep them small. People that give their animals HUGE amounts of food to raise them up quickly and breed them "YOUNG". People that have "sick boas" then they try to "play vet" and treat the illness themselves. People that keep different speicies, boas and pythons and what ever else, in the same enclosure. People who purchase an animal at a reptile show, then decide to get something to eat on the way home. This usually results in a dead animal, unless it was a drive threw. How about people who think boas like to eat crickets? Prehaps ones that "collect road kill" to feed their animals. I could give more examples of scary, but I think you can see there's "scarier" things out there.

Comparing this person to a serial killer was.......

Exactly what's wrong with that??

As long as her boa has access to water and is kept at proper temps... I just don't see a problem with it. After all, she did say she used a heating blanket in the winter.

As far as her being "Vegan".... Well, Vegans are sort of "different" in the first place. Of course,.....

I'm a Vegetarian. Not that Vegetarians are better than Vegans, but we're not a "harsh" towards what "others" choose to eat or not eat.

Now being Vegetarian.... Well, if there was a "healthy" vegetarian alternative to feed my boas... You'd better believe I'd be giving it to them.

Being that this girl is a Vegan and she does actually give her animal dead rats... Well, she's pretty "open minded" as far as Vegans go. If she prefers to allow her boa to live in a HUGE area... Well, that's OK too.

It seems to me that you're being a bit "judgemental" because she chooses to be "DIFFERENT" in the way she cares for her Boa.

Now if her animal was in "ill health", I could understand your concerns.

Since the boa seems to be in good health and is doing fine with the care it's receiving......

What's the problem???

not the heat gradient, because I'm sure the boa is better off
with more room & it is more than capable of finding the heating
pad.

The real issue is that he will evetually get loose or stuck
inside the refrigerator or inside the sofa, or someone will come
to do maintenance or something and have a heart attack when
they see a snake that size loose...

As long as she isn't a member of PETA she can't be all that
bad, at least she digs boas....

I agree with you 100%.

65deg to 70deg at night and low 70s daytime temps aren’t good. Heating pads not on until the owner is cold enough sometime this fall. If the snake gets out we all get a bad reputation. As far as a snake using some kind of “vegetable substitute” for rats (someday maybe, they have it for dogs and cats) I think it’s wrong to try to turn carnivores into something else. Their digestive systems weren’t designed for it and frankly nether is ours or we would have 7 stomachs and chew our cud. Oops! Can I pick up those two cents I dropped? Na, I don’t care if you as a person makes a decision to be a vegan, I just think it’s ridiculous if you try and make you carnivore pet into something it’s not.

The daytime temps sound fine. After all, the boa can bask in the sun that comes though the window/s. Basking is what they'd do in the wild if they needed more warmth. San Francisco has a mild cliamte. I live in the Santa Rosa area, so I know what the temps are like. I just think you're over reacting to this situation. You're asking if you should "turn her in". Turn her in for what??

It sounds like her boa is fine. She just chooses to keep hers differently than you do. There's more than one way to "house" a boa.

I really think she needs to eventually get an enclosure though. If nothing else just something to put him/her in while she's not at home. I realize that a boa can escape from an enclosure, but it's even eaiser for one to escape from a "room". Perhaps you should try bringing that up to her. Let her know that an enclosure is more for the animals "saftey". If you're worried about the temps... Try suggesting she "plug in a heating pad". Just so it has a place in the room for extra warmth, in case the boa wants/needs it. Just as you think it "wrong" to turn carnivores in to "something else". It's just a wrong to try to force your will onto others. You can't force her to do things the way you want her to. Instead just try making suggestions for making her way "work better". It really sounds like she wants what's best for the snake. People don't normally take on such a "large" animal without having the animals best intrest in mind.

Being a member of PETA!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I’m a member of PETA;

people
eating
tasty
animals

Hi,

I could understand your frustration. It is a different set up than ‘normal’ and I would be concerned there is no heat option for the snake available 24/7, no matter what season it is. I live in the bay area as well, near Oakland, so I agree that it normally might not be warm enough. However, she has had the boa for 4 months and it didn’t sound like there was any obvious RI, so maybe it is doing okay and as another poster mentioned, is able to bask in sunlight through a window. Are there any branches or levels/shelves in the room where the snake can move up and down? Heat does rise, so if she has some branches suspended from the ceiling or something of that nature, it might work.
If I were you, I would not report her or try to argue on this issue. I would just offer yourself up that if she has any problems you’d be happy to help her or point her in a direction to get help, which I think you did by giving her a book about boa care. Don’t be confrontational with her, it’ll just put her off even more.
Of course, this is all just my opinion.
Good luck!
-April

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

okay...i've read the entire thread, and i think everyone has made at least one or more decent points...

but...

although the snake has been in that environment 4 months, that is a relatively short amount of time...that snake has a 20-30year lifespan, and the low temps will undoubtedly have an effect on it in the long term.

secondly...it can not possibly be safe for that snake to have free roam, it could ingest something dangerous, or say it is under her bed, and she startles it...what happens if that 9 foot constrictor starts,well, constricting?

or say it is dark in the room and she happens to step on it? she could easily crush its skull or back (i've seen the horror story before on a rescue's site)

a high temp of 70 is in NO WAY ADEQUATE. at the LOWEST 70 is decent, but the warm spot should be much higher.

about basking under windows, that can not be a constant heat source, there are many things to consider; bad weather, curtains, blinds, etc...

and about the "vegans being weird" ....WirlWindBoaz, you stated that it was wrong to talk about her/treat her badly for being different...and yet, you talk on & on about how vegans are weird and different...and that vegetarians are not quite as weird....

i have met vegans that push their opinons, and ones that dont. same with vegetarians... you cant categorize people because of their eating habits....you said that also, but then you contradicted yourself...

personally, i think if the girl isn't willing to learn from an experineced keeper, and isn't willing to understand that she isnt provided necassary elements for the snake to survive, you should turn her in.

she invited you into her home & you saw the conditions yourself... its up to you whether or not you feel the animal is in danger, and if so, it is your duty to help the animal.

jessica
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0.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 ?????? Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.1.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.0.0 Gerbil
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
http://www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

I never used the word "weird"!
I said "DIFFERENT"!

okay...but you still stereotyped vegans and vegetarians...that was my point.
-----
0.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 ?????? Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.1.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.0.0 Gerbil
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
http://www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

Aw, come on. We are all weirdoes. We didn’t pick dogs or cats to collect we chose cold-blooded creatures with no legs that eat rodents whole. I think that it wasn’t “the norm” that intrigued us. And some of us are Even stranger yet and don’t know it because we live so close to San Francisco and Berkley that they make us seem normal So be weird because normal means petting your hamster wile watching reruns of Wheel of Fortune and Star Search.

Weird I can handle, but stubborn dumb, that’s annoying. Why doesn’t she just bend to my will!?! Just kidding (she promised to read the posts tonight). Actually she is going to convert her walk-in closet for the Boa; with a basking lamp, heating pad, a couple of large branches, and a door with a big glass insert.

She wants to do the best for her Boa, so I might get her to post some questions in the future.

She wasn’t that mad about me saying that she was nuttier than squirrel poo, but she said she would get even.

I told you she had the best interest of the boa in mind.

I also said she was smart and open-minded.

She seems to be new to keeping boas, but it sounds like she'll do what it takes to make sure it leads a long and happy life.

Stick with her and help her if she needs it. Offer "gentle" advise and don't be discouraged if she doesn't always follow it.

BTW people who prefer reptiles to traditional pets aren't weird. We're just "misunderstood". LOL.