Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do they still produce super offspring wiht the "Duck Bill" Sydrome? I have heard that the Cinnamon and Black pastels are compatable, and do produce a super version(Solid Black Ball Python) is that right? I know that many Supers of both Black Pastel and Cinnamon have been known to produce "Funky head shaped" Supers...but do does the offspring of a Cinnamon x Black Pastel look the same? is it something that can be corrected with outcrossing?

My wife has a Male Cinnamon from BHB line, and I would like to get her a mate so that someday we could enjoy the possiblity of watching a solid black Ball hatch...and was thinking about getting her a Black Pastel Female ( I have heard that the Black Pastels make a darker super), so I figured I would do some research and get some opinions and questions answered...Thanks in advance to all those who reply...

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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

That's a nice Cinny. BHB lines are the best. To answer your question, it's said that crossing cinny x cinny, or black x black causes the duck bill thing. But crossing cinny x black pastel eliminates that. It's a safer bet to do it that way, gives you more genetic diversity, and will help darken up your supers a little since black pastels do make darker supers, while cinnies make more brown ones. I plan on doing the exact same thing in a couple years. Many balls make an all white snake, but only 1 gene will give you an all black snake. And they look awesome. I can't wait to be making them myself. Good luck.

Awsome looking Cinnamons yourself...I bought ours for my wife becuase I really like how reduced many of the Cinnamons look, with the "Brown Backing"....You don't see many Black Pastels with the reduced pattern black back look...

You reminded me of another question...speaking of "White Balls" I know people have done Cinnamon x Mojavie, but what would the super form of a Cinnmojave x Cinnmojave look like? Wonder what both supers together would look like? or is it even possible? Is it possible to produce an "Eight Ball Lucy"???
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

...photos of a Cinny X Black Pastel Super, and guess what?

It has a bit of 'funk nose' going on....
(Not as bad as the Cinny X Cinny or Blk X Blk supers though.)

I'd still own a Super. Funky nose doesn't scare me away.

Spinal kinks (ie: Caramels) are a whole different story for me. lol

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

I suspect the symptoms vary from individual to individual. My sample size is very small (I got to see a pair of siblings) but one was nearly perfect and the other was not so much. I bet someone will figure out why it varies and how to increase your odds of getting good ones. I just hope they post the formula. It would be a shame to let more imperfect animals be produced for a competitive edge. Same goes for the kinking in caramels - if anyone figures out a way to avoid it (i.e. incubation temp, humidity, vitamins, etc) please pass it on.

A lot of them have kinking problems as well as the nose thing.
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John Vandegrift

Thats the first time I have heard that, I dont doubt it....I knew about the "Funky" Heads but not the kinking, I have a REAL big problem with working with morphs that exhibit major problems like that, If the can't be corrected, I realize there can be genetic "Quirks" but the morphs where those "Quirks" can be removed by outcrossing, I don't have too much of a problem with, its the ones that for some reason the genetics of that morph prohibit that morph from every becoming normal...I refuse to work with those morphs...the wife wanted a Spider a long time ago, and I talked her out of it, I won't produce more "Nuerologically Unsound" Ball Pythons...Just won't do it, no matter how cool of things can be done with it.

Thats why I try to do as much research on morphs, and find out the "Dirt" so to speak, as mentioned before, its a real shame that people don't say "whats up" with these morphs...Back then I almost bought a spider, back when they where thousands, but luckly a good friend who also works with Ball Pythons, told me to save my money...

As cool as some of the morphs are, its just not worth it to me to work with those...and wish people would be more forthright on whats going on with them, rather than be more concerned with making money...Thats the reason its taken me so long to warm up to the Ball Python "World"...I used to hate ball pythons, for MANY reason..
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

Hopefully as morphs become more reasonably priced we can have more open discussions of problems and work together to solve them. I do think there is hope of workarounds for many of these.

I was never in the position to buy in early so it didn't affect me directly but it must bite to spend big bucks on something new and find out the dirt later. Some would say those buyers should have done their homework better but I think it hurts the industry to have things like that happen.

I did finally get my first morph this year, a spider. Of course it was free for the cost of a breeding loan. There are still things I don't know about them (like is there a homozygous spider) but I guess I can't complain at that price.