Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I don't know why I did not think of this sooner. While I agree this bickering is not all that benefitual. But, it led me to this.

You believe in science and science is to test. And your in a great position to test this discussion. I already have, But you have not.

Because you have ackie eggs about to hatch they would be a perfect subject.

Over the year or two, you can do several tests to clarify this discussion. In my experience there is some individual veriance. So you may want to do the same test several times.

First test, keep five ackie babies in an excepted way, temp choices(75F to 135F or so)Retes stack, deep substrate, etc. Dust any and all food items you like. Gutload insects if you like, just keep records of what you do. Do what you think is best to maintain a proper calcium balance.

Test two, same as above but no suppliments or gutloading, what so ever.

Test three, gutload, dust, all the same as test one. But change the conditions to normal PH conditions. Temps 75f to 90F. substrate of paper or reptile carpet. A petshop hide, water bowl, climbing branch, etc.

Test four, same as test three, but no gutloading, or dusting or supplimenting.

Feed all the above aprox the same amount. Note weekly progress.

This is a simple test to observe if suppliments are directly responsible for a strong skeletal structure. Or if husbandry conditions can effect that as well.

You want to be scientific, heres your chance. I believe you to be honest and truthful, I believe you to be diligent. So who better to actually add to this subject. Cheers

That may be an excellent idea. But i think i know the answer to the PH set up w/ low temps, repticarpet and a giant hollow log (group #3 and #4)and may not be able to bear seeing the lizards try to live like that.

There you go, you do not know the answer yet. See, you somehow take strong value in your thinking, without the value of testing and results. In science, you just committed a sin, you assumed. You not suppose to do that. Or from your past experience, you are prejudiced. Again, another scientific sin. When you run tests, you do not let assumptions and prejudices interfere.

Those few simple tests will only lead you to a better understanding. And that understanding would be from THE REAL SUBJECT.

I can guarantee that there will be a range of results in all tests. It will not be, this works, that doesn't, etc.

For instance, we tested a constant temp of 82F no lites of any kind and no suppliments of any kind. Hmmmmmmmmmm The monitors tested were very healthy after two years. But, there was no to little growth, no reproduction, and no problems.

I would love to see you do some tests so I can compare your results to mine. And In that, I will bet again, they will not be the same.

In reality, I am having a hard time finding ways to successfully cause such things as MBD, mouthrot, or URI. So far, the only thing I can find that causes failure on a repeated basis is, near total neglect.

Which is something I do not see you doing. So I have faith, that you will not see results on the negative side that you think you will be seeing. Which I hope will surprise you. Cheers

I will definately do supplements vs. no supplements and report honestly. I've seen too many posts of group #3/#4 to do that to my precious animals, so I guess i'm not as scientifically bound as you may think - not to the extreme of causing harm. I'll do monthly weights and measures over 6 months and keep a log. I'm interested in the results, and yes, a lot of a couple dozen ackies is not going to be a great sample size for statistics. But doing this test over many clutches may provide some insight. You're on!

Then don't do nothing. You see, those four put together are ONE TEST. All of them will lead to a basic conclusion. But truthfully, to really learn you will not many more.

About the precious animals. Wouldn't the actual knowledge be precious. You see, with real knowledge, you can positively effect the lives of many many precious monitors.

So I guess You admitting its not the supplimentation, that is important, its the conditions that will cause them to fail. Same supplimentation as a precieved successful setup, yet your reluctant to lower the conditions, as you think it will harm the animals. So, I ask, why again were you arguing?