Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I don't read alot of the forums, but I did catch today the thing about the super stripe. I think both parties should be commended, anytime you can be an adult and overcome a disagreement it shows class no matter who was right or wrong. Its simply the right thing to do. We all share the same passion.

That leads me to something that has troubled me ever since I have been into Ball Pythons. Why name morphs until they are proven? I posted a few days ago an animal I am working with and refuse to name it unless it proves. That is a question I get alot, what are you naming it? Well, it seems there have been alot of cool and useful names gone to waste by premature naming of these morphs that do no prove out. By rights someone proving a morph out could use a name previously used by an unproven, but who would want it? There is a cloud left over that name that spells "unproven," thus making it not really worth using. I guess I'm not really complaining and do understand premature specualtion that a morph will prove, however feel there should be a restraint from doing so. I mean no disrespect to anyone who has ever done it what so ever as I can see how easy it is to do but hope in the future this may change. Let's face it as many proven new morphs arise today, we need all the best-fit names we can have available for the breeder but most importantly the morph. I see people name things that I have no clue what they see in the animal and at the same time see things I can't believe do not prove, yet the one that looks more like a morph does not get ridiculed. There is really no difference. There is nothing at all wrong with using possible morph or something along those lines. Until an animal proves it is genetic it is simply a Ball Python. Just a hobbyists' two cents.....

great point/s. It is not a 'morph' or a 'mutation' until it is proven. I think the answer to your question in regards to why people name things are a few different reasons.
1. Everyone feels they have something special when many times it is just another snake.
2. Unfortunately people label things so they can get a few bucks off it when many times it is a waste of money and nothing comes of it.

Sad, but both reasons are self serving and number 2 is flat dishonest, but I have seen this happen every day for a decade.

How many 'spiderish', 'mojaveish','pastel like', 'clownish' balls have you seen for sale? It is either a pastel or not, it has the gene of a spider or someone is lying. No gray area about it. Just a way to market something to justify charging extra money for a $10 ball.......maybe it is a way for someone to feel important for whatever reason and in whatever way.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

this is NOT a cut at SRX, two posts below, but made me think of something.

I have seen an "oddball" posted for sale many many times. Truth of the matter is all snakes are 'oddball', unless they are identical twins. They are all unique or 'odd' in their own right. Problem is those same snakes are listed at $300 when it will take someone 5 years to make their money back.

$10 X 6 animals a year= $60 X 5 years= your $300 investment that was a bust! With that said the 6 eggs a year is generous at best as you probably will not get that every year or the first couple.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

Good points as well, I guess what it all comes down to is there is also an ethical obligation to "naming" an unproven morph. Naming one prior to proving it somewhat misrepresents the animal as well as fuels "wannabe morphs" that end in disappointed and leary customers.

Absolutely.
One word that you used that is not a practice as often as it should be in this indusrty is ethical.
I would also use the word integrity, honesty, morally, etc.
I guess it comes down to many people are after a quick buck and are not in this for the long haul. They are greedy and will do, at times, whatever it takes to get ahead. That is why there is another site on the world wide web that is full of negative dealings that people have.
If everyone was on the up and up a site like that would not exist......mind you I support the site, just making a point.
I would also put the use of "hets" in this as well. Either they come from a homozygous breeding or a true het breeding or they do not. This area is not quite as black and white as there truly are 'possible hets', but those out there that know darn well they are selling a normal as we possible het I would put in the above lacking category.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

Names, Names, Names .....

For years people have bickered about names and naming - and they never seem to hold one position for very long. Darn ironic if I don't say so myself.

Yellowbellies aka het Ivories. Yep remember when people bickered that it couldn't be called YB or Het Ivory unless it came from a proven Ivory line? The next year thousands of them were imported, marketed and sold and all of a sudden anything mildly resembling a YB could be called a YB.

Red Axie (Axie = plural for axanthics) - How many conniptions have been thrown over this particular morph - it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck reproduces like a duck - but unless it comes for a certain line of ducks it aint a duck.

Waiting to prove it out before naming it .... How long has Ralph been working on the Platty project - still haven't been able to narrow down that mystery gene yet? Womas, Crystals, Circus, etc. lots of unproven/unknown stuff out there people are willing to accept names for - why?

The Coffee got a name and so did the Ebony but those weren't reproduced.

The Derma - not proven we were willing to accept that one right out of the gate.

The Spotnose - bless Tracy for hanging onto that project when everyone doubted her - but just because a snake can reproduce a spot on the nose does that determine whether it has officially reached naming status?

Bless Tom and GCR for being civil about the whole Lightning/Vanilla thing. But what happens when two breeders decided that they don't want to compromise on a name and when is it ok to just say they are the same thing but different lines?

10 years later we are still answering the age old question about the difference between a pastel and a jungle pastel. Not to mention the compatibility of the ghost lines. Cinnys vs. Black Pastels, Butters vs. Lessers vs. Mojaves.... How many morphs do we have now that are "esentially the same thing just different lines" LOL.

WOW - we could go on for hours with this one ... but you get the point.

For what it's worth here is my unproven morph (LOL) yep - can barely get her to eat, highly unlikely she will breed anytime soon, not to mention that there is a chance she is not genetic and if she is most people would automatically think "granite" but I think she deserves a prettier name.

My Paisley Ball:

Have fun, play well with others - it's all good!

***** Disclaimer - no offense intended towards anyones projects as mentioned above.********

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Tosha
JET Pythons

(CJBianco explaining the origins of the BP market.)
"In the beginning Bob created the Ball Python market. And the market was without morph, and wild traits were upon the industry. And Bob said, Let there be morph, and there was morph. And Bob saw the morph, that it was good; and Bob divided the morph from the wild trait. And Bob called the morph Albino, and the wild trait Normal. And the Albino and the Heterozygous Albino were the first investment.
-- Christopher 1:1-1:5"

how about SCARlet or s.SCARgo??LOL inside joke.
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ball pythons
pastel,het&PH albino,het&PH hypo,PH pieds,PH clown,and norms!!
borneo ST,black,& red blood pythons
0.1 black SSTP
2.2 borneo STP/marble
2.2 red bloods
garter snake morphs easterns/checkereds/plains/redsides
w.hognose morphs
1.1 super kids Memfis Lance and Linda May(co-dom)