Reptile & Amphibian Forums

He was 7 months old and approximately a foot and a half long and eating small hoppers.

Mars recovered from an unknown illness about 3 months ago, the vet couldn't identify it but the symptoms were simply lethargy and not eating. He was energetic and eating when we moved last month on the 28th. Mars is a very stressy snake so I didn't feed him for a week before we moved and waited until two days ago to feed him 3 small hoppers.

Yesterday he was zooming around his cage which was kind of strange since he's a secretive snake. He usually spends most of his time buried in his substrate or poking his head out of his pot or shed box.

The cage temps are a steady 72-73 on the cool side with a heat pad on one side with a temp on the hot spot of about 84 and a gradient around it from 80-84. He doesn't have a day/night cycle and never has since he spends 95% of his time buried. His shed box was damp and he uses it regularily.

This morning I woke up to find a regurgitation on one side of the tank and him lying against the glass on the other side of the tank with a lump about a cm below his head and the other halfway down his body. He was twitching his tail and opening and closing his mouth.

We rushed him to the vet but he died on the way. The vet indicated that there was alot of bloody foam and it is possible he compressed his trachea and asphyxiated on the last regurg. She also specified the meal was large, but not excessively so.

I've been reading google for hours and either I'm not using the right search term, or this is a strange case. The only indications I'm seeing of death by regurg are when there's not enough heat to digest. I specifically checked the heat pad and it's functioning normally and he uses it often.

Any ideas? I am a novice and seriously looking at my husbandry here, and my nearly 4 foot grayband is booked for an appointment to check her health as well to make sure I'm not doing something wrong.
-----
1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

It sounds like you did everything right. You got the snake to a vet....and the LEAST he should have been able to do is tell you why it died!! My first guess would have been bad food animals which poisoned his system, maybe bad water too.....but that would only be a guess. The "vet" should have been able to tell you more with a couple simple tests. Without having the snake to look at its impossible to diagnose, with it the vet should have been able to tell you more! I hope you didnt pay him....Jeff

No I did not. I am not paying when I have to do my own research

Water bowl was cleaned the day before I fed him with dawn dish soap and rinsed well. Same routine as always, though maybe the soap?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the food since I purchased the mice from a new petstore close by where I live now instead of the reptile specific place 50 kilometers away. I already will never buy there again since it was $3 per HOPPER.

I fed my other snake food from there as well.. what should I be on the lookout for? She seems okay, gave me a dirty look when I bothered her to check.
-----
1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

It sounds like your husbandry was perfect. I'm thinking it may have too much food, and maybe tried to regurg, but the 2nd one got stuck or damaged the snake somehow on it's way back out. It sounds like you did nothing wrong. I know how you feel. I have lost a couple snakes earlier this year. I'm sure you feel terrible about it, but there isn't much you could do. Sometimes freak accidents happen. Derek

Jeff
I vet looking at a dead snake has no more of an idea what happened than you or I. Unless the client is willing to pay for an autopsy (which he wasn't) how could the vet tell him anything.

Sorry if I didnt read that

I wasn't offered an autopsy or I would have gotten one. Didn't even know it was an option.
-----
1.0 Eastern Kingsnake, Chain (Mars)
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake (Thanatos)

That sounds like a very strange death. I doubt very seriosly it had anything to do with feeding a large meal.

The zomming around the cage and its quick demise is evident the snake had a strong irritant. Similar to heat or poison. I doubt a desease caused his death.
-----
"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

i had a similar experience last week during feeding thawed mice to my adults and 1 ,5 y/o corn ate and a while later i heard her crashing around to find her esfixiated but still barly alive so i palpated the mouse out and she did perish ,appeared to suffocated,the mouse looked wet and normal after regurged Manually and went down head first and was a thawed

First off no one here will be able to tell you why your snake died for sure.

That said I will propose a theory.

Rarely it is possible for regurgitating to directly kill a snake. This can happen in one of two major ways. First it is possible to tear or damage the esophagus. This is more common with larger prey that have large teeth and claws, but it is not impossible with a hopper. The second is the the stomach can prolapse or even twist. This is very rare but it has happened.

Neither of these two things explains the stressed darty behavior, I would guess that their was something more seriously wrong with your snake.

I'm very sorry about your loss. It sounds like you did everything you could. Personally, I think if you feed big meals like that, it's better to offer an even broader temp gradient so the snake has the option of choosing a warmer hot spot. But that still doesn't explain why your snake died.

The zooming around the cage is not unusual. Snakes often do a "death dance" shortly before they die. Sometimes it's a day before they die or the minute before.
-----
www.BugChick.com

chickabowwow