Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i grew up 2 GTPs ive had since babies,they were popped for inaccurate turn out 1.1 instead of 0.2 but both have spinal cricks in the cloacal region could this be from popping????

before one year of age-you've seen the result.

Brad Chambers

so i can assume the cricks and kinks are attributed to the popping technique,espesially since they are just around the cloacal region!thanks Chris

I hope for your sake that your snakes aren't ruined for breeding. if I were you I'd go back on the moron who screwed up your animals.

Brad Chambers

heres a pic of the female,

>>heres a pic of the female,
>>

Wow, it looks like the snake is paralyzed from the cloacal region down...
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."

trying to pop them is a problem its relatively easy to probe baby gtp's and etb's if one knows what he is doing. I've done it 100's of times with NO problem. Again you need to be experianced and have the right probes. I still do it and guarantee the sex! TC

No amount of gentleness or care in popping or probing will allow the safe manipulation of the caudal region of baby GTPs. And it's hard to be able to say that you've done it "without problems" when said injuries may not become obvious until months later.

Don't take my word for it-this is the opinion of pretty much all of the country's top green tree python breeders-Greg Maxwell, Trooper Walsh, Eugene Bassette, and basically every other top breeder. None of these folks will sell sexed GTPs less than a year of age, nor will they try to sex babies for their customers. I'm certainly willing to take their word on it.

Brad Chambers

disagree all you want but I stand by what I said. I've done this as long and in fact longer than most of the folks you mentioned. In fact they're friends of mine. I'm not suggesting everyone do it. I'm saying I can and will continue to do so.... thanks...Tom Crutchfield

are solidly against you on this one, Tom. You and I have both been around a long time, but I say it's irresponsible to advocate the safety of sexing young chondros on a public forum, regardless of what you believe you can or cannot do. But as for me personally, I don't believe you or anyone else can do it safely (and to me, probing is more, not less, dangeous than popping).

To everyone else, I urge you to follow the advice of the VAST majority of chondro experts, and refrain from sexing until your animals are over a year old.

Brad Chambers

entitled to think anything you like. So am I. I disagree with you and think your veiled sarcasm is a bit much. I've even sexed Epicrates gracilis [ google the species as I doubt you know what it is] about 3 months old sucessfully. I know I kept them for years in my colony. In fact I had f-4 snakes. They are miniscule compared to gtp's. A forum is to express ideas and to help others. I didn't tell anyone they should do it. I related my own experiancs. If you know me you realize I've kept, sexed, and sold more gpt's than you and damn near everyone else on kingsnake put together. Keep your sarcasm to yourself. To agree to disagree is fine but to make statements of irresonibility targeting me is a bit much. I could do the same but I hate to match wits with an unarmed opponent..TC...P.S... LAST JAN. I HAD 64 BABY ETB'S IN STOCK AND I SEXED AND SOLD THEM ALL. MOST HAVE GONE THRU THE OCTOGENTIC CHANGE AND CUSTOMERS KEEP SENDING PICS AND WANT MORE NEXT YEAR.

Tom Crutchfield wrote:

"entitled to think anything you like. So am I. I disagree with you and think your veiled sarcasm is a bit much. I've even sexed Epicrates gracilis [ google the species as I doubt you know what it is] about 3 months old sucessfully. I know I kept them for years in my colony"

At least YOUR sarcasm isn't "veiled"

Tom, I was maintaining Gracilis (Hatian vine boa for those wondering) in the late 70s-not that this species has anything to do with GTPs. Neither do emeralds-I've sexed baby emeralds myself, no problem. Chondros are different.

You haven't answered my main point, which is that all the real experts in this country-the breeders-disagree with you on this. And I'd like to humbly suggest that people who have been breeding the animals solidly since they first entered the country in the early 70s might know a bit more about it than a commercial wholesaler.

Brad Chambers

asked them but I will next time I see Eugene. I would guess its because they're afraid to because of the chance that they will harm them. Again done properly the're is little chance of harm if one knows what he is doing. Actually using E. gracilis as an example is relative as they are MUCH more difficult and smaller. Again a forum is to express knowlege and ideas. It seems you only want your views to be taken as fact. Anyway all the best.

I think disparaging the experience of someone you know nothing about is outrageous (and unwise). I've actually collected and studied caribbean boas in the wild (Epicrates striatus fowleri, Tropidophis canus). Have you?

Brad Chambers

In 1975 I discovered a brand new gecko in turks and caicos named Arristelleger hecti. I just got back from the D.R. in April looking at herps there. By the way are your E. S. fowleri from Chub Cay, Cistern, or other isles? If you send pics I can look at them and tell you having personally seen all in the wild. I have personally collected every species of W.I. Epicrates with the exception of E. monensis. In fact having collected on 5 continents the Greater Antilles are still my favorite place to go. By the way did you have E. g. gracilis or E. g. hapalus. I've personally collected both. In fact the only species I haven't bred is the monensis group[2 subspecies]. This is turning into a pissing contest but let me asure you E. and T. are my speciality!!! The fact that you know something about them interest me. I still maintain and breed large colonies of many types.

Actually most of my field work was on Andros and surrounding islands. My assisited friend Doug Wynn in bringing out a group of Epicrates under permit from the Bahamas National Trust in 76 (if memory serves-might have been 77). We were involved with IFS and Forfar Field Station, which was our base of operations from 76-79, then occasionally until 86.

Sorry if my points are pressed too strongly-but for many years I owned a reptile store, and I've seen way too many disfigured chondros in my time. I know that in the Chondro community, the mere fact that a juvie is offered as "properly sexed" is enough to make it ineligible for sale. Ask Eugene about it-if he disagrees I'll stand corrected (or at least learn that there is controversy on a subject I've heretofore found unanimity lol)!

Brad Chambers

Tropidophis c. curtis and T. c. barbouri were my favorites except for T. feicei[Cuban].

I used to be partners with Gary Lorio in the 90s, and we had the most awesome pair of orange T. melanurus you'll ever see-I agree T. feici is very attractive. I like the ease of maintenance of melanurus-particularly after working with canus!

Brad Chambers

nice. I know I'm the one who imported them from the Chech Republic. I kept the best ones and sold the rest.

commen cause of kinked tails is NOT sexing but people pulling them off their perches without disengaging the tail gently first. For all you know that could be the case here. You seem quick to make a diagnosis based on partial information.

The gentleman explained in his post, if you'll refer back to it, that the animal WAS sexed as a baby. this isn't exactly the first time this has happened.

Brad Chambers

if you had really known me you would know that other than crocodiles West Indian herps have always been my love for over 40 years. Ask Eugene, Bob Clark, Brian Sharp, or anyone that realy knows me.

All this sexing info coming from the same person that advertised this snake on the classifieds here as an aru locale type. Obviously not an aru type locale but a misrepresented biak.

I hope that people reading this thread will consider the source and continue to listen to people that actually breed and work almost exclusively with this species.

advice but simply making a statement. Whats the matter did you forget to sign your name? Do you have some sort of hidden agenda? No one can consider you a source as you remain anonomous...TC

Didn't forget to sign my name, forget that not everyone knows sometimes as I've never hidden it or tried to keep secret. My name is posted on the boi thread where I initially addressed this particular snake you had listed for sale. I'm definitely a "newbie" to the herp world compared to many others and just a hobbyist, but have worked professionally with animals for over 30 years so am pretty astute in acquiring good solid information.

I actually believe that it is possible to sex some chondro babies without injuring them, it's just too great a risk though so why take it. I've had babies kink their tails simply from being very aggressive taking food while perched.

Cathy Maynard
chondrogal@msn.com

Thats a fair enough answer. I don't like to sex babies either but I have many times without injury. Again I made a statement that its possible and it is. I also suggested not doing it unless you had a lot of experiance. Again thats true as well. TC

initially:

"trying to pop them is a problem its relatively easy to probe baby gtp's and etb's if one knows what he is doing. I've done it 100's of times with NO problem. Again you need to be experianced and have the right probes."

Now read that over."Relatively easy"? "100s of times with NO problems"?

If that isn't an open invitation for folks to try it themselves, then I don't know what is. And as far as being "experienced" is concerned, surely you are not claiming more experience than people like Trooper Walsh, Greg Maxwell, etc, etc....ALL of whom not only won't try it themselves, but claim probing or popping chondros is too dangerous for ANYONE to even attempt, regardless of experience.

Can you cite a single well-known chondro breeder who sexes out his hatchlings?

Brad Chambers

yes I have probed many baby gpt's particularly years ago when they were rare and the sex of a baby REALLY mattered to a buyer. Yes it can be done safely. In fact if you think about it logically you would have to know you can. Do I like to, no. I did it out of neccesity. While I have not been interested in breeding gpt's in big numbers I have bred many other miniscule species[like e. gracilis] where knowing the sex mattered.As far as experience goes yes, I'm sure I've have sexed, and sold many more gpt's than and I quote"gpt breeders" have. Its just like your statement about Epicrates and Tropidophis your basing your opinion without knowlege of what I've done or the level of my experience. Just so we're clear I DO NOT THINK THE AVERAGE PERSON SHOULD TRY TO SEX THEM. If it was necessary while I don't like to I would again. Again I'm not advocating anyone try in fact I could care less if they do or don't. I'm saying its possible and it is. I have never asked if people that work exclusively with gpt's sex them or not. Again I really don't care. Its a matter of choice and its easier to say I can't and not to. I don't know why this bugs you so much. If you have any just don't sex yours. I have NEVER made a statement suggesting people probe their babies just saying its possible AND IT IS. WHAT ABOUT THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? This will be my last post as it is an exercise in futility....TC