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sorry it is dead but i have children who play in my yard and i can not take a chance...
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That's a tough one. Where are you located?

It kind of looks like an Eastern Massasauga, a type of small rattlesnake. But without seeing better photo and knowing where you are located, it would help.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

sorry i am in south eastern north carolina on the coast....

Would it be at all possible to get a pic of that stretched out, with a clear view of the head?

~~Greg~~

no i am sorry but he has been in the trashcan for several days now and i am so terrified of snakes i would not dare to touch it....

No need to touch it, despite that that dead, it is no threat...use a stick or two to lay it out & get a clear picture of the upper side, including the head, then flip it over & photograph the underside. It may well be a venomous snake, but there's still a chance that it is not...either way, it is a challenge to us.

~~Greg~~

at first I see eastern hognose....
but...looking at the tail, do I see it with a light greenish tint??
It could be, though maybe not, an aberrant (of sorts) s. copperhead but my gut kinda says no.
I'm sorry for not helping you,considering the two choices I gave you are night and day with one being venomous.
A better pic of the head at least would do it.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Well it is very hard to tell from the photo but it looks like a harmless eastern hog-nose snake. It does not match any venomous species from your area.
Good job on killing it, it posed no threat to your family. Next time I would suggest calling Animal control so they could remove it instead of chopping it up.

The problem we are having is that this snake appears to have a somewhat aberrant pattern - no snake in NC has this pattern normally. Therefore, based on the pattern alone it is difficult to narrow down.

If I had to guess based on what we can see and the locality, I might have to go with Eastern Hognose as well, although I couldn't eliminate a somewhat oddly colored Northern Copperhead.

The shape of the head reminds me more of a Northern Watersnake, but that is really tough to call from this photo.

So it is either an Eastern Hognose (harmless), a Northern Watersnake (harmless), or a Northern Copperhead (venomous). But without a better photo, you are never going to know what it was.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Just like "CrimsonKing" said,....harmless Eastern Hognose is what I first saw too(what little there is to see). I don't see ANY evidence at all of keeled scales either, so that rules out Sistrurus(Massasauga) too!, or any other type of rattlesnake for that matter.
Doesn't look like the abstract banding of a Copperhead either.

What it does look(and I've seen many) is the strange blotch pattern of an Eastern Hognose.........even though just the tail portion is visible...too bad you're so deathly afraid of snakes, that you couldn't have just gotten a neighbor to get it out of the trash can for a better full photo though!

I've never known of a snake corpse harming anyone before.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

It sounds like you are not too far from Wilmington and the serpentarium there. Did you think to call those people? That is a very odd looking snake for southeast NC. It's too bad you didn't get a better picture, particularly of the head. If the animal is not too rotten, perhaps you still can.

How long was the snake? Did it spread it's neck like a cobra? Did it roll over on its back and hang its tougue out like it was dead? What can you tell us about it?

Might I suggest you figure out which snakes in your area are poisonous and avoid killing those that aren't. The poisonous snakes in you area are copperhead, cottonmouth, timber (canebrake) rattlesnake, eastern diamondback rattlesnake, pigmy rattlesnake and possibly coral snake. The snake in the picture is obviously not a rattlsnake or coral snake. I don't think it is a copperhead or cottonmouth either but I'd have to see a better picture.

The website for the Cape Fear Serpentarium in Wilmington is http://www.capefearserpentarium.com/

There is a snake and exotic animal sale at the fairgrounds in Raleigh this coming weekend. There will be people there who are expert in NC snake identification and it's always a fun thing to go to.

Bigfoot

This is the first time I've been stumped on a North American snake. The tail doesn't have a rattle or the stump a rattle-less snake would have. Also the botton jaw/neck (I think that's what it is) doesn't look like that of a viper to me. The pattern is weird...it might be something new to us. Not a new species but an unusual patterned snake.

Kind of hard to tell since the poor snake was so ignorantly mutilated. Wish there were more pics!

looks like a copperhead to me but i cant say with out a better pic and if tou do deside to move it for a pic it wont hurt you if you just stay away from the head

Also looks like an abbarant copperhead..however, the head doesnt look quite right..of course you cant really tell, I do see the hognose in it..Im going with copperhead..Not 100 percent sure..just one head shot would do it all.

This photo of a cottonmouth has similarities. Similar colors, even with the thin white outline to the blotches. Smooth scales too.

Are there any water bodies near by? Like creeks or ponds or lakes?

http://www.snaketracks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=362&sid=2acddb4e261133cb2e69cba59d19a98a

well, I'm going to start killing every dog or cat I see because they scare me, then I'll ask questions: was it dangerous?? Did I save my family from a blood thirsty monster??
now for the snake...that pattern looks very much like a Russell's viper, which is not native to the US (from Asia). I would guess that's not what it is, but anything is possible.
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-David

Check out my pet pics at:
http://www.myspace.com/obx_fisherman

1.0 ball python (Pandora - don't ask)
1.0 argentine boa (Prometheus)
0.1 hogg island boa (Andromeda)
0.0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (Inara)
1.0 kenyan sand boa (Diablo)
1.0 normal corn snake(Cypress)
0.1 amery. corn snake (Morgan LaFay)
0.0.1 banded cali. kingsnake (Cain)
1.0 tangerine honduran milksnake (Narcissus)
0.0.1 snow corn snake (Valkyrie)
1.0 amazon tree boa (Pegasus)
0.0.1 colombian boa (Athena)
0.0.1 albino san diego gopher snake (TBD)
0.0.1 sandfish skink (Slick)
0.0.1 fire skink (Phoenix)
1.0 dog (Luke)

the wife's pets:
1.0 bearded dragon (Leonidas)
1.1 ferrets (Ares, Enyo)
0.0.1 betta fish (Captain Morgan)
1.2 cats (Galahad, Ripley and Sassy)

If people around the country started wontonly killing every dog they saw walking around minding their own business, the public would be outraged. But for some reason the same needless killing of harmless reptiles is eerily tolerated. Not to mention the fact that in the United States, attacks by domestic dogs claim on average more than three times the amount of lives that snakebites do every year.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the original post highly offensive and in poor taste. You don't go on forums for animal enthusiasts and post pictures of harmless wildlife (in this case, hognose snakes) you killed out of sheer ignorance. It's not cool at all.

Instead of people butchering harmless wildlife in their yard out of fear it will hurt their kids, they need to just teach their kids not to attempt to handle any snake they find until it has been positively identified and determined to be harmless. When kids do find a harmless snake, use it as an opportunity to educate them instead of fill their young minds with ignorance, fear, and hate. Venomous snakes should be left alone where they are found (or relocated, if absolutely necessary), not killed.

Good thing these posts of butchered snakes don't seem to be as common as they were a couple years ago; maybe people are finally starting to get a bit more educated about their local wildlife.
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- Natalie
(San Francisco Bay Area)

1.0 Banded California King
1.0 Mexican Black King
1.0 Goini Kingsnake
1.0 Bay of LA Rosy Boa
2.1 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.2 Rubber Boas
0.1 Pickering's Gartersnake

yeah, I wonder what cat lovers would do if you went to their forum and said, "hi, I had this cat in my yard yesterday, and I was wondering what type it is judgeing by color pattern...oh by the way, I'm sorry it's mutilated beyond recognition; it looked at me and I swear it was foaming at the mouth and ready to attack. Thanks for the help!"
What irritates me most is the fact that it takes about 5 mins (tops) to look up snakes in your state, but instead of finding out what it is and educating your family, and yourself, you go crazy and kill it, and you teach your kids to be terrifid, which results to them killing snakes when they are older, which happens to be the cause of approx. 85% of venomous snakes bits! I thought we lived in a smarter country, but then again, we can't be too smart if 1 out of every 5 can't even find America on a map (poor miss South Carolina, how do you honestly answer that question???)

oh, and here's a new pic of my argentine boa for everyone, hope you enjoy

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-David

Check out my pet pics at:
http://www.myspace.com/obx_fisherman

1.0 ball python (Pandora - don't ask)
1.0 argentine boa (Prometheus)
0.1 hogg island boa (Andromeda)
0.0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (Inara)
1.0 kenyan sand boa (Diablo)
1.0 normal corn snake(Cypress)
0.1 amery. corn snake (Morgan LaFay)
0.0.1 banded cali. kingsnake (Cain)
1.0 tangerine honduran milksnake (Narcissus)
0.0.1 snow corn snake (Valkyrie)
1.0 amazon tree boa (Pegasus)
0.0.1 colombian boa (Athena)
0.0.1 albino san diego gopher snake (TBD)
0.0.1 sandfish skink (Slick)
0.0.1 fire skink (Phoenix)
1.0 dog (Luke)

the wife's pets:
1.0 bearded dragon (Leonidas)
1.1 ferrets (Ares, Enyo)
0.0.1 betta fish (Captain Morgan)
1.2 cats (Galahad, Ripley and Sassy)

I agree, the original post was in very poor taste. Whenever I see a post like that, I'm reminded of just how egocentric people can be. The snake was there first, educate your kids and leave them alone. They aren't crawling around looking for people to bite.
Kevin

I've actually started choking every puppy I come across to death because my uncle knew a guy who's kid got maimed by a pitpull.

I get the sarcasm!LOL......I agree!

My favorite analogy to people is...."it's been that way since the BEGINNING of time......and will continue that way till the END of time"......people are taught this rediculous fear, and never bother to ever check out just a few facts about them.

Monkeys, and other wild animals, have a very distinct caution of snakes,...which is quite understandable, since they can't
discern which is truly dangerous to them, or not.

A human child on the other hand, will reach out and grab a snake
when given the chance!........hmmmm, imagine that!LOL

best regards, Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

you choke them to death! you're brave! I run in shear terror and hide in my closet till I'm sure it's safe to come out...sometimes I'm in there for weeks at a time lol
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-David

Check out my pet pics at:
http://www.myspace.com/obx_fisherman

1.0 ball python (Pandora - don't ask)
1.0 argentine boa (Prometheus)
0.1 hogg island boa (Andromeda)
0.0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (Inara)
1.0 kenyan sand boa (Diablo)
1.0 normal corn snake(Cypress)
0.1 amery. corn snake (Morgan LaFay)
0.0.1 banded cali. kingsnake (Cain)
1.0 tangerine honduran milksnake (Narcissus)
0.0.1 snow corn snake (Valkyrie)
1.0 amazon tree boa (Pegasus)
0.0.1 colombian boa (Athena)
0.0.1 albino san diego gopher snake (TBD)
0.0.1 sandfish skink (Slick)
0.0.1 fire skink (Phoenix)
1.0 dog (Luke)

the wife's pets:
1.0 bearded dragon (Leonidas)
1.1 ferrets (Ares, Enyo)
0.0.1 betta fish (Captain Morgan)
1.2 cats (Galahad, Ripley and Sassy)

Guess I should kill all the dogs that come in my yard for the same reason.

To those of you who tried to be helpful to this message i thank you.. to the others and you know who you are you are very rude people... i do for your information have a snake book but i could not find the snake in it... i also dont go around just killing snakes to kill them.. but when it comes to protecting my family i will (sorry)..i also did not kill this snake my husband did..you are not very understanding people to make fun of someone who has a real fear of something instead you just make fun of them, i was not raised around snakes so i dont understand them and fear them.. so instead of teaching me you just make fun of me.. that is very sad other people had posted about dead snakes they had killed or found dead but for some reason that was ok.....

your post: "To those of you who tried to be helpful to this message i thank you.. to the others and you know who you are you are very rude people... i do for your information have a snake book but i could not find the snake in it... i also dont go around just killing snakes to kill them.. but when it comes to protecting my family i will (sorry)..i also did not kill this snake my husband did..you are not very understanding people to make fun of someone who has a real fear of something instead you just make fun of them, i was not raised around snakes so i dont understand them and fear them.. so instead of teaching me you just make fun of me.. that is very sad other people had posted about dead snakes they had killed or found dead but for some reason that was ok....."

No, it is NEVER ok for me to see posts of dead snakes on here, and speaking of "rude" behavior, it is very inappropriate and RUDE to go to a forum for animal lovers and post pics of mutilated creatures, doesn't make a difference if it is a snake or a puppy or kitten. Your BLIND fear and ignorance is NOT an excuss, neither is saying, "oh, I didn't kill it, my husband did" oh, that makes it ok now. I seriously doubt you tried to stop him! If you get a ticket and go to court, you can't plead ignorance of the law and expect that to be a legitimate excuss. Now I know these forums are here to help people, and I understand those who believe that we shouldn't respond negativly, even to posts like this one that is in very bad taste, but I've seen this type of post again and again, and I do NOT believe any of these people really care about learning and respecting snakes/reptiles, they just want to be able to tell everyone WHAT they killed. You tell them what it is and how harmless it is, and they say "thanks!", then next week they see another one and kill it too! I will be kind and helpful to anyone who TRUELY cares about learning about the creatures and/or the hobby; but I also have no problem with insulting those who were insulting first, and you cannot deny pics like that are insulting to us who love these animals.
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-David

Check out my pet pics at:
http://www.myspace.com/obx_fisherman

1.0 ball python (Pandora - don't ask)
1.0 argentine boa (Prometheus)
0.1 hogg island boa (Andromeda)
0.0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (Inara)
1.0 kenyan sand boa (Diablo)
1.0 normal corn snake(Cypress)
0.1 amery. corn snake (Morgan LaFay)
0.0.1 banded cali. kingsnake (Cain)
1.0 tangerine honduran milksnake (Narcissus)
0.0.1 snow corn snake (Valkyrie)
1.0 amazon tree boa (Pegasus)
0.0.1 colombian boa (Athena)
0.0.1 albino san diego gopher snake (TBD)
0.0.1 sandfish skink (Slick)
0.0.1 fire skink (Phoenix)
1.0 dog (Luke)

the wife's pets:
1.0 bearded dragon (Leonidas)
1.1 ferrets (Ares, Enyo)
0.0.1 betta fish (Captain Morgan)
1.2 cats (Galahad, Ripley and Sassy)

its just as easy to shoo it out of your yard.

dogs hurt children far more often than snakes, are you going to shoot every dog that comes on your property because you dont know if its mean?

and i realy hope you didnt kill it in front of your children, if you did you just continued the endless cycle of people who beleive "the only good snake is a dead snake"

the whole thing could have been avoided if you had just showed your kids to avoid snakes.
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jake

my addiction:
0.2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1 amelenistic corn snake (maizy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
1.0 albino cal king (zeus)
0.0.1 wc garter (zim)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Most of use peruse these KS forums because we are interested in herps. Therefore we all dislike seeing snakes that met an untimely end due to someone's fear and lack of experience with identifying snakes.

However, this forum is a somewhat unusual place. I view it as a place where those of us who know and love snakes can provide a free service to the public at large. I like to see where some non-herper takes the time to register and log in here to post a "what is this snake" photo. This shows me that the person cared enough about the animal to actually take the time to ask the question so that next time they wouldn't have to kill a harmless species.

The real snake haters wouldn't post here because they don't care what kind of snake they killed, as long as it's dead. The people who post questions here have an honest interest in learning more about snakes, and I think we owe them an answer to their question without a bunch of abuse.

When you abuse people who come with honest questions, you are more likely to send them away angry and with a lower opinion of herpers than anything else. That will lead to more dead snakes, so think before you post angry responses.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I still don't get it. If someone actually has a genuine interest in finding out what kinds of snakes are harmless and what kinds are not, they can just as easily consult a field guide. It's like going on to a bird watching forum with a picture of a dead raptor you just shot and asking if it posed a threat to your chickens. I'm sure you'd have a lot of angry bird watchers out there. I'm not suggesting that we flame every person who comes on here with a picture of a dead snake. If we can show our distaste for this kind of ignorant behavior while at the same time making an attempt to point the person in the right direction, we stand a chance to make more of an impact.
Kevin

In defense of the original poster, she did try to look the snake up in a field guide. The snake obviously was one with an aberrant pattern, & perhaps a color aberrancy as well. Finding a snake like that in a book is nigh impossible.

~~Greg~~
Florida's Venomous Snakes

I still don't get it. If someone actually has a genuine interest in finding out what kinds of snakes are harmless and what kinds are not, they can just as easily consult a field guide.

This is a good point, for someone who owns a field guide. If a non-herper is curious, they aren't likely to go out and buy a field guide or go to the library or bookstore to look it up. And furthermore, even if they did consult a field guide, they would still be faced with the problem that they might not be exactly sure about their ID. By posting here, they get a much cheaper, more convenient, and more trustworthy identification.

It's like going on to a bird watching forum with a picture of a dead raptor you just shot and asking if it posed a threat to your chickens. I'm sure you'd have a lot of angry bird watchers out there.

Yes, it is. You would get a bunch of hot head birders who would flame you and call you ignorant, etc., then you would get some more thoughtful birders who would identify the animal and suggest that it wasn't really necessary to kill it, without resorting to insults. Same thing as happens here.
For the record, the person who shot the hawk would also be guilty of a federal crime, unlike the person that kills most snakes.

I'm not suggesting that we flame every person who comes on here with a picture of a dead snake. If we can show our distaste for this kind of ignorant behavior while at the same time making an attempt to point the person in the right direction, we stand a chance to make more of an impact.

I don't have any problem whatsoever with identifying the animal and suggesting to the person that it wasn't necessary to kill the snake. We could suggest that next time they try and get a photo of the live snake and we could ID that.
We can also express our disappointment that the animal had to die, but I think we cross the line when we flame the person who simply came here for information.

We should welcome the opportunity to educate the public-at-large, not spit on them because we don't like the fact that they killed a snake. And if you read the posts, they almost always regret having to kill the snake.

As I said, we should view this forum as an opportunity to educate non-herpers so that maybe a few less snakes get the hatchet. But if we instead choose to malign and insult those who come here for help, what is the point of this forum?
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

i dont mean to scare them away, but i just get mad about stuff like that
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jake

my addiction:
0.2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1 amelenistic corn snake (maizy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
1.0 albino cal king (zeus)
0.0.1 wc garter (zim)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

I do hope you are still reading and hope you can understand why some people on this forum have gotten upset about the snake being killed. That particular snake is particularly upsetting because it obviously had an abberent color pattern. As such, a live snake would have been worth a fair bit of money and would have been a delight for a herper to own and breed.

I saw a similar pattern today in a cornsnake X Honduran kingsnake cross. It is highly unlikely such a hybrid would be crawling loose around NC but it might have been an abberent cornsnake. If I had a corn of that pattern, you can be sure I would be breeding up a lot of them.

The other possibility might be an abberent copperhead, which is poisonous. They bite more people in NC than any other poisonous snake though bites are uncommon and it has been at least half a century since one has killed anybody in North Carolina. The way to tell a copperhead is to look at the top of its head. It is a true copper color. You won't find that in any other NC snake. I don't keep copperheads but I know somebody who does.

Whatever the snake, if you find another with the same pattern, don't kill it. Maneuver it into a container and email me. I'll be happy to come get it.

Bigfoot.

p.s. I also saw a beautiful solid yellow rat snake someone had caught wild somewhere in southeast NC. It's going to take the person who caught it 3 or 4 years to start getting the same color babies but once he does, he's going to be making thousands of dollars.

I do understand the feelings of the people who are upset because the snake was killed (i was at work when it was killed). I am sorry my posting has caused so much trouble. Someone posted about the books not having all the information in them well you are right i did look at my book and could not find it i even looked on the internet and could not find anything that looked like it...then i found this site and you all know so much about snakes that i figured you would know... I am an animal lover but not a snake lover although i dont go around killing snakes just to kill them...i have learned from this experience and the next time i will just avoid the area i find the snake and leave it alone....

sjmudjet

Thanks for asking in the first place.
These forums are a slice of life. In other words, don't worry about anything that was posted. We get all kinds here, and some of the posters are people who are brand-new to the reptile area and try to prove to everyone else how "smart" they are and how "ignorant" others are. I've done the same, but I hope I've become a bit wiser.
It's easy to see that many people kill snakes, and no amount of bullying and name-calling will change that fact.
The truth is, even though the likelihood was slim that the animal in question was venomous or "dangerous", it could well have been.
I personally think it looked like a hognose, but it really is impossible to know with the picture you sent.
In any case, your husband did what countless others have done and will do. However, now you see how some people value reptile life, and maybe it's an eye-opener.
Sorry for the clumsy wording here, but I hope you get the gist of my message.
Again, don't take it personally at all.
Thanks for trying.
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V.P.
Austin Herp. Soc.

I don't know if anyone answered your question yet, but your dead snake appears to be an Eastern Hognose. The scales (enlarged on Photo Shop) are keeled. They are highly variable in their coloration and pattern, and the ventral scales of the pictured snake match that of the Eastern Hognose. They are non-venomous and pose not threat to humans. They prey specifically on toads and the occasional frog. When threatened the will flatten out their neck and hiss loudly, but rarely ever bite.

If you are concerned about getting bit by a venomous snake, here are some things to consider. Most venomous snake bites occur when the person is trying to kill the snake. The best way to avoid snakebite is to familiarize yourself with your local snakes, and educate your children about them. Don't teach your children to fear them ~ but to respect them. If you find another snake on your property just leave it alone and contact your local Nature Center, Science Museum, or Animal control officer to properly remove it.

Hope this helps.

BK

Hognose seems plausible, but it does look mighty similar to an old world Viper.

Today I was sitting in my front yard with my 9 year old niece, and my adult Pueblan Milksnake. She is very interested in herps, and we were watching the snake crawl through the grass as I taught her about Milksnakes. The subject of Rattlesnakes came up and she called them "mean". I told her they are not mean and are afraid of us. She said they "bite people" and I told her only if we bother them. She didn't at first understand, so I explained it to her until she understood. She started the day seeing rattlers as "mean" and left knowing they aren't. She had a better appreciation of venomous snakes, and even though she will probably never see one in her life, she doesn't have the ignorance that so many kids are taught these days.

Thats because she has been around my herps since she was born. My point is, learn from your mistakes. The original posters husband killed a snake out of fear and ignorance, but that can be used as a platform for education.

If you live in a area where venomous species reside, you owe it to yourself and your family to learn about them, appreciate them, and respect them.

I didn't mean to come off sounding as hot headed as I did. I am a snake lover at heart, I have been all my life. When I see any animal killed out of ignorance or fear, it does get to me. But at the same time, I ignored several important points. I did not know that it wasn't you specifically doing the killing. I ignored the fact that the pattern on the snake was aberrant, so it probably wouldn't look like the "normal" snake pattern presented in most books. I'll offer the same suggestion most of the people here have offered. Learn about the snakes in your area, teach your kids to leave them alone, respect them, and let them be. In most cases, when you see a snake, they're going to high tail it out of there as quick as they can. It's a cliche, but it's also true, they're more afraid of you than you are of them. Snakes are scared of people, and they definately don't want to go out of their way to bite something a couple hundred times their size Anyway, live and learn. And I do want to say thank you for posting, what you did is better than the thousands of other people who kill snakes every year and don't care about finding identity, the "the only good snake is a dead snake" ideology, which we all hear far too often in the general public. So thank you for posting, your post shows that you care, and you've got the right idea. Again, sorry if I sounded hot headed.
Kevin

thank you to all of you...I have stayed here and have kept up with the posts and all of you are a great group of people..

sjmudjet

I agree with everything everyone said, but I'm still going to choke out puppies .