Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello forum,

Looks like I goofed. Back in ’03 I had a litter from albino x het. I sold a few of the babies. I just got an email from a guy that the female I sold to him has spurs and he believes it’s a male. (I’ve asked him if it was probed and am waiting for a response.) Anyone in Kentucky want to make a trip and verify for me?

Besides asking this guy to confirm sex, I asked what I can do to make it right. I need to go back through the old emails but I may have advised that I was not sure of the sex since I was new to baby boas the time. It passed the ‘feeling for the bb’s’ as a female 3 times back in ’03. It’s been 4 years now. Just looking for opinions on what you would do in this situation.
Thanks for your time and thoughts.
-April
(boy I am I glad I inevsted in probes so this never happens again!)
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

April,
....Snakes cannot be sexed with 100% accuracy. Probing and palpating for hemipenes can be done very accurately by some people but neither method is fool proof. I have gotten mis-sexed snakes from some of the biggest names in the business. I have also sold a few mis-sexed snakes in the past. If I buy a snake I sex it soon after purchase so there are no problems later. Just my opinion but four years after the fact is too long for your customer to expect you to do anything about the mis-sexed snake. In four years he/she could have had it in and out of many different cages with opportunities each time to confuse it with another snake.
Jeff

>>Hello forum,
>>
>>Looks like I goofed. Back in ’03 I had a litter from albino x het. I sold a few of the babies. I just got an email from a guy that the female I sold to him has spurs and he believes it’s a male. (I’ve asked him if it was probed and am waiting for a response.) Anyone in Kentucky want to make a trip and verify for me?
>>
>>Besides asking this guy to confirm sex, I asked what I can do to make it right. I need to go back through the old emails but I may have advised that I was not sure of the sex since I was new to baby boas the time. It passed the ‘feeling for the bb’s’ as a female 3 times back in ’03. It’s been 4 years now. Just looking for opinions on what you would do in this situation.
>>Thanks for your time and thoughts.
>>-April
>>(boy I am I glad I inevsted in probes so this never happens again!)
>>-----
>>'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

April,

I agree with Jeff. I can say I can ship snakes with 99.9 percent certainty, but when you are sexing hundreds and sometimes thousands, they can sneak by. I have sent a few missexed snakes, and years later they wanted me to take care of it. I did, but I have now changed my policy. I make it known to my customer too.

I guarantee 100 percent healthy and correctly sexed, but with the 99 percent sex guarantee that means that there is a 1 percent CHANCE your snake may be missexed. You have a 4 week TOTAL guarantee to make sure the animal is exactly what you ordered. IN that time, the Buyer needs to VERIFY the snake is correctly sexed, and make it known during that time. Because after that time, I can't guarantee I'll have a replacement, or have the money he may want back.

I think that is a more then fair policy. I know with you, you want to do the right thing so he will know that you are honest. However, there is only so much you can do. I know it STINKS for all involved, but there has to be some responsibility on the other end to make sure the snake is CORRECTLY sexed too. They are not to BLAME, but it really is just way past the time.

Jeremy Stone

I am not a big name or even more than a hobbyist that manages to get a litter or so each year. I don't think you have any resposibility in a situation like you describe. If I purchase a snake that turned out to be the wrong gender within a week or so, I would ask for some sort of compensation...maybe a trade for the correct sex. But, it is MY responsibilty to double check within the seller's accepted policy period.

I concur with both Jeff and Jeremy. But 1 other point that was not made is that females also have spurs ... they are just not as defined/prominent at the males. Stating that the boa has spurs does not mean that it was mis-sexed ... it still might be a female?

Bill Gaines

Thanks for all of the replies. I agree with them. I feel it was up to the guy to double check the sex when he received the boa, I usually offer a 1 week guarantee. 4 years is just so long. However, I only breed and sell every once in a while and having a good rep is important to me. There are a few things I can think of doing to make it all okay but I will await his response. I also mentioned that females do have spurs and asked him to get it probed. I searched his name on the BOI and he had a shady transaction with someone else back around that same time, my fiance thinks he may be trying to pull a fast one on me.
I've been sold many snakes (corns and boas) as females that turned out to be males. I just sucked it up and accepted that it's a part of the business and in the beginning I got suckered by a few no-goodies. I never pushed the issue back since I never caught the mis-sex right away. I'll see what he responds and go from there. Hopefully he'll just chalk it up to a learning experience.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

I'm just wondering, do you have any way to verify this is the same animal you sold 4 years ago? If you decide to give any sort of credit, refund, or whatever it would be great to know it really is the same animal. A lot of things can happen in 4 years! By the way, I don't think many would consider you "bad" for not doing anything after 4 YEARS have gone by. I wouldn't. Good luck

Says that it tried to breed with one of his females and has spurs. So I just stated back that females do have spurs and in fact I did have a female sent to me as a breeding loan (back in '02) that tried to breed with my female. (the boa on loan was thought to be a male, after 4 months of them 'courting' I sent it back to the owner and he confirmed it was a female he had sent out.) I asked him to let someone come sex it or bring it to the Kentucky reptile show and have it probed. I asked for pictures (I have pics of the snake as a baby so I should be able to match it up and confirm if it's the same one). I mentioned all that was said here, I reconfirmed I had a 1 week guarantee and he should have confirmed sex upon receipt of the boa. He asked for a female albino (!!what!!). Obviously I would not do that. I told him the snake must be sexed by someone that I know and probed to verify it's a male before I would do anything.
Sheesh. what a mess! I'm just trying to do the right thing here, wish me luck and thank you very much to the people who offered advise and big thanks to the people who offered to sex it.
-April

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

Well, it's sounding like he's trying to take advantage of you.

At best, if you really want to do it, he's entitled to the price difference between the two sexes.

If you figure, back in 2003, Het for Albinos females went between 250 and 350. Males between 100 and 200. Prices depended on quality. Then take the median price of each, 300 and 150. BTW it's been 4 years and I'm just guessing at the prices in 2003.

The aboslute most he would get is 150. That is "if" it's the same snake and it turned out to be a male. Also if you absolutely felt the need to do anything after so much time has passed. He'd also need some serious proof in order to get that much money, after so much time has passed.

In reality, it's been 4 very long years. All he's actually entilted to is an apology.

BTW Since he asked for an Albino... That sort of makes it seem like he's trying to scam you. If he had simply asked for the price difference or a partial refund... Then it would make him seem like a person that got a mis-sexed snake and he simply wanted what was fair.

>>Thanks for all of the replies. I agree with them. I feel it was up to the guy to double check the sex when he received the boa, I usually offer a 1 week guarantee. 4 years is just so long. However, I only breed and sell every once in a while and having a good rep is important to me.
>>>>

April, no body in their right mind would fault you if you told the guy 4 yrs is just too long. That you can't help him out. I read the BOI a lot, and just can't see it happening. No Chance.

He's trying to pull one on you. Don't let him get away with it. You have a TOS? Stick to it. To the letter.

My 2¢
Rick
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

April, Look at it this way. Has that ever happened before..? I personally don't think it has, so this is a once in a blue moon situation. Give the person the benefit of the doubt and within reason make that person happy. Your always going to have those once in a million problems pop up. What separates those who can from those who can't is how they handle the exception, not the norm. In closing I wish you the best of luck and good fortune in your reptile pursuits. Take care. Andrew Potts

He was nice about it and dropped the issue. I just felt so bad about the whole thing, I know how much it sucks to get a mis-sexed snake, esp. when it's purchased for a specific project.
I told him I'd try to help find a female albino at a good price, so if anyone has any leads for me that would be terrific.
Thanks again for all the opinions and offers to help!