Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been playing with some Vision 221's and experiencing a lighting problem. I only keep Crotalus lepidus klauberi, so my heating needs are not near as great as many other sub-species. I have always preferred having lights on the inside of the Visions because it lights up much better than placing the flourescent outside on the grill. The 221 measures 29"L x 24"D x 12"H. I also use 4" heat tape that measures 8" long. The problem I am having is the flourescent light and ballast are giving off too much heat. There is no cool end of the enclosure as of now. Are there any other lighting mechanisms out there that I may be missing? I like the flourescents because they are thin and hidden from view. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
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John Blume
WWW.KLAUBERI.COM

John, I've never kept your species so I have only little advice, I consider Chris a lighting expert hopefully he will chime in.

My first question is are you using a fixture or a custom light. Second how do you vent the 221 and third what is the ambient of the room.

If the ambient is close to the temp of the cage you will have heat exchange problems because thermal radiation moves from hot to cold.

If you vent the entire enclosure you may have some issue or if you don't vent the entire enclosure you may have some problem.

To me your only heat problem sounds to me like it the lamp and ballest. While the lamp does put out sufficient heat its the ballest thats raising your temps. If you disassemble the fixture and move the ballest out of the enclosure or at least to the warm side you may notice significant changes.

Depending on that result you can futher offset the heat generated by venting the entire back of the enclosure not just the cool side that would allow excess warm air to vent out the back of the hot end while still maintaining optimum temps on the cool side.

Of course the heat tape maybe a limited factor but it depends on how its set up.

Just a few ideas don't know if any can resolve you situation.

I for example use MVB's in my Dragon enclosures, the result is a 120* basking with 80* coolside due to excess venting. In my Iguana cages I achieve 90* daytime temps with 110* basking spots (still too cool) all on 60watt light bulbs. It just depends on how you distriubute your heat and vent excess. Remember substrate plays a huge part it acting like a conductore or heat sink.

Good Luck
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Sunglow "Khal" RTB
0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB
1.0 Double Het "Khal" Sunglow RTB
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.0.13 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
1.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.0.7 Normal Suriname Hybrid's
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.6.14 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

I think moving the ballast out of the tank is a great idea and may fix the problem. Lowering ambient room temps may also solve the problem.

I also know there are different types of fluorescents. T8, T12, and T5 I believe. There may be more types. I believe some use lower wattages. I'm not an expert on this, never had a problem with too much heat from them, but it may be worth looking into.

Hi John,

They sell LED bookshelf light assemblies, and the LED's put out virtually zero heat. But, there is a step-down transformer in there, and that puts out some heat. In a closed cage, it can be enough to raise the ambient air temp.

So it seems to me, you need a light assy where you can keep the transformer outside the cage. You can do it with fluorescents, as mentioned, by putting the ballast outside the cage. You can do it with the LED assys by putting the transformer outside the cage. One of those 900 mA plug-in transformers from Radio Shack will power LED light assemblies. Output is low voltage, no danger. LED light is very "electronic" looking unfortunately. I hear they will get better in time with that. With fluorescent ballasts, they are high voltage, low current. You must take precaution to have no exposed wires for you or the snakes if you use fluorescent ballasts outside the cage.

I will advise you to not have wire nuts hanging in the air exposed if using a fluorescent ballast outside the cage.

(Remove the word "wire" in the above sentence and it sounds weird. That was not intended! lol)
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Mark

I've heard of buying a ballast and end caps separately. I went to both Lowes and Home Depot, neither had anyone with enough experience to help me. When I looked at the end caps, I didn't see a way they could be mounted to the roof of a Vision cage. Perhaps it was the limited number of styles they had. Perhaps my needs would be served better by going to a lighting specialty store.

To be honest, I am thinking that the Vision 221 may be too shallow, it's only 12" tall. Especially for klauberi, which are montane rattlesnakes. Even with a room temp of 72, a basking side of 85, the cool end of the cage is still 83 degrees. Not enough gradient.
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John Blume
WWW.KLAUBERI.COM

I think you have gotten some very good advice. I had a ballast on the outside of a cage once and believe I just removed the ballast from the fixture and then used longer wire so it could reach. I don't remember what I did about having the wires exposed. Given how long ago it was I probably just left them like that. Would not do the same today.

MarkG and Jeremy can help you more with that. They are the wiring gurus on the forum.

I know some fluorescent fixtures have very low heat output and are quite slim and streamlined. Maybe that's what you're already using?
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Chris -

I am using a GE Ultra-slim, No Hum Undercabinet that is 13" long. The fixture is only 1" thick, and the light itself is very narrow.
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John Blume
WWW.KLAUBERI.COM

John,
I think in your case, having the fixture outside is going to be easier (unless the cages are stacked of course, but even then, you can use spacers.)

I've seen this setup in a plastic cage: they cut out a rectangle on the top, covered it with a piece of acrylic (aka plexiglass) and used small screws to attach the acrylic piece to the cage top. Then they simply laid the fixture on top of the acrylic window. Lights up darn well but keeps the heat out.

I think that is easier than removing the ballasts out of all of those fixtures and mounting them in external utility boxes and wiring them up safely.

Visions are super easy to cut. The HDPE cuts like butter.
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Mark

>>I will advise you to not have wire nuts hanging in the air exposed if using a fluorescent ballast outside the cage.
>>
>>(Remove the word "wire" in the above sentence and it sounds weird. That was not intended! lol)

Exposed wire nuts attract electronic squirrels.
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Matt Campbell

"I only went out for a walk and finally concluded to stay out till sundown, for going out, I found, was really going in." John Muir

I will advise you to not have wire nuts hanging in the air exposed if using a fluorescent ballast outside the cage.

(Remove the word "wire" in the above sentence and it sounds weird. That was not intended! lol)

This was too funny, thanks for the laugh.