Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello folks! I'm asking advice about a good, hardy handleable frog or toad for my 11-year-old daughter. She's been interested in amphibians for quite some time, and has successfully cared for 2 dwarf clawed frogs for a year now, and I'd like to reward that with a next-step frog. She'd really like something she could handle (and she understands that she's to be careful not to over-handle), and I've been looking at Oriental Fire-Bellied Toads (but although beautiful and entertaining, look a bit jumpy for safe handling - do they "tame" down with time?), Leopard Frogs, Red-Legged Walking Frogs, and White's Tree Frogs. She's really like the White's, but we did have a bad experience with one a previous time - it died the day after we brought it home. Since then she's been imformed that since that frog had a withered leg and wouldn't eat and died so quickly, it wasn't her fault, but she's still scared she's harm one if she got another. Would the Whites be as hardy as the rest and a good choice? Any other suggestions?

If she gets a frog there will be no handling what so ever. Frogs are VERY, VERY delicate. The oils from your hands are enough to kill them. Their skin will pick up everything on your hands like a sponge. If she wants something she can handle, get her a corn snake or leopard gecko. If you still want a frog, she has to realize she can not touch it. Frogs are strictly eye candy. Good luck. Andy
-----
Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

I heard that White's were okay with some handling in some caresheets I read. Get a pacman frog, they make up for handling by eating those cute mice you *can* handle. Heh heh heh...

I guess it's not good to regularly handle any frog, but if there will be handling a large toad may be the best option (but they have toxins), although I'd steer away from amphibians altogether if there will be handling.

While a White's will tolerate it, a leopard will freak and orientals are too toxic, anyway. It's not like a frog will die if you touch it once or twice, but you can't really sit there and hold it or let it crawl on you or anything. They really aren't the best pet for children in general, either. They require more maintenance than one would think and can be way too sensitive to their surroundings.

There are many reptiles that would make a better choice, although there are frogs that are fairly hardy as long as you don't really handle them And good luck!
-----
Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

Mice are not an acceptable foor for any amphibians, they cause blindness due to fat buildups.
-----
http://joshmilliken.tripod.com/

I wouldn't go with the Fire Bellied Toad either. While easy as far as the care goes, they are on the slippery side when you might have to handle them for cleaning their enclosure. Effort also has to be made for a very secure enclosure, as they are great escape artists.

How about an every day plain 'ol American Toad? My eleven yr. old has enjoyed one for over a yr. now. They don't move at the speed of lightening like some frogs do either. You just have to enforce the washing of hands each and every time she'd touch one. Really and truly though, any amphibian should only be handled when necessary. Kind of looking with your eyes, not your hands. Just tossing some ideas out to you. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Hello! Although we've already decided on a White's right now, both my daughter and I found your suggestion of the American Toad very interesting, and might consider one when we next add an amphibian to the household. Where do you obtain them? I haven't seen them online, but am new to amphibians...

There are NO handeable frogs. I am afraid you are looking at the wrong group of animals. Go with a Leopard gecko or others for something to play with.
-----
*Humans aren't the only species on earth... we just act like it.

".the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without
spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

My daughter and I decided to go ahead with a White's Tree Frog, as she already has plenty of animals to handle regularly (pet rat, kingsnake, ball python, bearded dragons...) and understands that handling this guy would be a rare occasion (such as changing cages, etc).
My questions are, why do the books lead you to believe it is okay to handle some frogs? And also, if we do have to handle him for any reason, would it be safer for him if we used those disposable plastic gloves like you can get at beauty supply shops?
We've already bought a couple books on White's, and read up a bit online (on this board, and the Tree Frog board, and Frogland) - is there any other source of good info we shoudl check out?
Thanks again for all your help!

Anyone who knows anything about the captive care of reptiles and amphibians will tell you those books are absolutely worthless. Those books have no credibility with me. I absolutely believe that if you were to follow the instructions in those books exactly as they say, in a lot of cases it would directly result in the death of the animal. How do they get away with publishing those books? They simply are not peer-reviewed books like other scientific literature.

I would have to say that with the presence of other perfectly handleable animals, there is no reason to put any undue stress on an animal such as an amphibian.

At the very minimum, you should wash your hands directly before touching the amphibian. The hands should also be wet, like dripping wet. Ideally, you would use disposable latex gloves that our rinsed free of any powder and allowed to be wet. Even the ridges and whirls of your fingerprints are enough to damage the epidermis of amphibians. The Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry book (a $140 scientific book for professionals, not the pet store books!) goes one step further and recommends using water conditioner such as Novaqua to lubricate the gloves. This particular water conditioner is rather viscous and is intended to provide a slime coat to fishes. I have used the water conditioner when I have had to restrain a larval tiger salamander for medical procedures.

Using latex gloves has become a professional standard in the zoo and research field. I can assure you I have done more than adequate research on the subject. I've spoken to over 1 dozen zoos and aquariums across the country, and had personal interviews with many top-notch professionals in the amphibian field. Where I work every single amphibian is touched only with a gloves, and we have only on rare occasions had any problems with epidermal abrasions, and no skin diseases of any type.
-----
*Humans aren't the only species on earth... we just act like it.

".the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without
spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

I think I'll get myself some gloves for those occational handlings (lik when I'm going to have to transfer everyone for the move into our new house) I've already made a habit of washing my hands then spraying them with treated water from a spray bottle that I used to mist with. I always make sure that my hands are dripping (makes for a messy carpet sometimes, but that can be cleaned)

I'm glad that I'm at least doing part of it right.
-----
Heather

That's what I do, wash my hands well (I wash my hands like 50 times a day, though, but usually to get any lotion off) and put them in treated water. I'll handle with my hands, but only for short times and not often, although I used to do it more often.

Learning more and more about frogs, I realize their life isn't something I want to risk just by touching them, though, so I try to be careful when I do.

Anyway, for an 11-year-old to take in a pet and agree to not handle it is very responsible. I don't know your daughter, but I'm very proud of her!
-----
Got hips like Cinderella / Must be having a good shame / Talking sweet about nothing / Cookie I think you're Tame

For goodness sake don't wear rubber gloves. You are working with a pet, not a specimin in a zoo. As long as your hands are clean and wet, you should be fine. I keep a spray bottle with aged water (age the water to remove chlorine before using for frog, but don't bother with conditioners) handy and spray both frog and hands to keep them wet while I am holding him. While wearing gloves may be ideal, it is not reasonable considering this is the pet of an eleven year old. My frog's skin has never been damaged by handling, and my vet said it looked great at the last visit. In the past six years, I've picked up, held, hand fed, and examined my frog hundreds of times, without a single problem. As long as you don't pet/stroke the frog, you should be fine.

I got a White's Tree Frog on my eleventh birthday and he is now 6 years old. I always make sure I rinse my hands (but no soap) before handling him, but I handled him fairly often. I would take him out and let him crawl around on my hands and shirt, for 5 minutes or so every few days. He has never had any skin problems as a result of handling. In fact, an advantage of taking the frog out and holding it for a few minutes is that you can look it over for signs of problems. Two years ago, I noticed a tiny red spot on my frog's head. I found a vet and it turned out that he had cut his head on something and it was infected. The vet prescribed antiobiotics and my frog recovered, but I was told that he would have died quickly if I had not noticed so soon. For the first year or so, my frog would squirt water from his cloaca to try to scare me when I handled him, but he is now used to me. I hand feed him, by taking him out and holding him and then placing a cricket in front of him and holding it until he eats it. This allows me to dust the crickets in special vitamins and make sure he eats the right amount (be sure to give the frog appropriate vitamin supplements, I did not and my frog developed a bone disease, so he now has special vitamins to keep him healthy). By hand feeding him, I can monitor what he eats and look him over for problems. He has also bonded with me to the point that he is more comfortable eating from my hand than anyone elses. As long as you keep your hands clean, and handle him in moderation, a whites tree frog can be an amazingly handleable pet. As far as the rest of his care goes, he lives in a 20 gallon long tank with reptile/amphibian dirt on the bottom, a plastic plant which he sleeps in, and a 6 or 8 inch diameter water bowl. I hope your daughter enjoys her frog, and can learn to handle it in an appropriate way as I did.