Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Female german giant clutched 24 eggs while dealing with an eye infection that was being treated by an antibiotic ointment, day after she laid the eggs and they were mostly a clear yellow membrane with no shell, there were only a handful or so that had shells. Most collapsed and started to rot and were removed. 6 survived and were firm but white was only speckling the shell instead of covering it entirely. The third day after laying the eggs the eye infection spread and became an respiratory infection and we had to put her down for lack of funds to keep treating her. Two of the eggs grew considerably but the rest remained very small but had signs of growth due to veins running through the egg. The eggs were kept at 83.4 degrees and laid on the 15th of june. Around 8/24/07 the air conditioner went out and it was 94 degrees in the house and i noticed the temp on the incubator had risen to 89.4 so i opened it and waved out most of the humidity and turned it off until the temp returned to 83 degrees and then turned it back on. The eggs started to collapse on 8/26/07 and none show any signs of hatching, could the embryos possibly have been killed by the heat? If anyone could give me advice as to whether this clutch may hatch or if its a lost cause let me know thanks

ashley

i only have leopard gecko eggs ? butt
it could of had been humidity in the tank ? have you ever checked the temps for it..??

im sure someone could give better advice

I don't think the temperature in the incubator had anything to do with the death of the eggs, unless it reached higher than 90F for any length of time. Temperatures above 90F will kill eggs but if the temps never reached above 90F they still will have a good chance of surviving.

However, many other reasons could have caused the death of the eggs, too much humidity, not enough humidity, presence of antibiotics within the yolks (if you were treating the mother with them while she was gravid) her weakened condition while producing eggs and possible diseases she may have had other than what you were treating her for. Also, the fact all of her eggs were not properly shelled, showed she most likely was also suffering from low calcium which could be why she became so sick.

Sorry to hear of your loss but in this situation there are still too many factors that could explain why none of the eggs hatched, even if some appeared fertile. Unhealthy parents tends to lead to unhealthy eggs for the most part and having temperatures a bit too high could have caused problems as well. The yolk in the eggs may not have been good enough to sustain the babies, etc.
-----
PHLdyPayne

Would you recommend anything different in regards to breeding when I try again? I have a 11 month old male bearded that has bulked up considerably since his purchase three months ago, around 17 inches and a voracious appetite. We also purchased a sunfire/orange female around the same size at the reptile breeders expo in daytona august 18th and were told she was about two years of age. Should we get lucky and she produces a successful clutch.. Anything different in methods of incubating? I may also have done something wrong in substrate/set up maybe? Hovabator rigged so the fan comes on when the heat is on only, two shoebox type rubbermaid containers filled 2 inches moist vermiculite no lids, small dish of water, calibrated to 84/86 degrees. I've heard of some using perlite instead?

Thanks
-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

If the eggs were laid on the 15th of June then today August 30th would be the 76th day. I would wait another 10 days just to be safe. The outside range for hatching is 85 days. Personally, I don't think they were ever viable if they were not shelled correctly. Also temps. above 88 often cause death or birth defects to the embryo.

You should not use a hovabator with the turbo fan. The perfect humidity for dragon eggs is basically 100% and the fan moves the air and dries out the eggs. The egg containers should have lids also.

Here is a good description from a well respected breeder.

http://www.dachiu.com/care/incubator.html

Good news, I came home it is now 8:55pm and one of the babies has its head and upper shoulders out of one egg. There are no signs of hatching from any others but its a start. The baby looks dead though, I picked it up to check and lightly nudged its head and it pulled its head back tight to the egg. Is the baby just worn out? Possibly dried out from fan? Im going to wait until tomorrow for the final outcome, havent moved any eggs around

thanks
-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

do you know where I could purchase a better incubator like the one you linked me to? Maybe not so big because im just breeding for hobby right now, nowhere near the size of commercial but could put aside 200-300 for a decent incubator.. hopefully one that i can type in temp and have it go that temp? Dont know if one such as that exists. thanks
-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

here is a picture of the remaining 5 eggs, including 4 at the top that are leopard gecko eggs that are collapsing but cant get the himidity to raise in this damn thing
Link

-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

sorry, another picture
Link

-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

You know, I'm guessing that they made it themselves. A Helix Thermostat runs about $140, I would think you could build the case etc for less than $160 in any size you wanted. The Hovabators are fine just not the turbo fan model. The regular cheapo with no fan is only $40. Of course with any incubator you cannot let the house temp. exceed the set temp of the incubator.

I would really recheck you husbandry in regards to calcium by the look of your eggs. You need to dust live food with Calcium (No Phosphorus or Vitamin A) every live feeding but one that you dust with a Multivitamin. RepCal Brand is best for dragons.

Here is a web address with a great greens and vegetable list.

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

I get my greens from reptigreens.com, and Ive always dusted crickets and superworms with calcium and vitamins multiple times a week. The female, if you read the first post, had an eye infection shortly after we had bought her and as we were treating that she became gravid with eggs from our male. She was calcium deficient when we got her, and Im guessing having eggs didnt help the situation. In short, the female was sick when she laid them, the vet suspected she laid them early in an effort to get better

on the plus side, the little baby got out of its egg, but the others show no sign of hatching as of today. Ive put him in a separate container as of 11pm last night and he is doing ok. He is licking the moisture off the sides of the container i put him in. Any advice on when to start feeding? Ive got a dish of fine chopped greens ready when he is lol.
-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

Wow! Now that's one tough lil guy...defeating the odds! I have a soft spot in my heart for things like that! If you keep him, make sure you give him a strong warrior name! lol

If the yolk sac is completely absorbed then I would move him into the nursey now. That way he won't have a long 1st day in a new place.

It usually takes a few days for them to eat their 1st meal. I'd have crickets ready (smallest you can get) but you may have some luck with the salad but don't count on it. I'd try a couple times a day from the 2nd full day on.

Yes the baby is tired and is learning to breath air. You need to just leave him alone and he will come out in his own time. Generally you leave him in the incubator for the first day in another container of moist vermiculite. If he is active, alert, and retains none of the yolk sack then it's Ok to transfer him to the nursery.

also.. baby dragons are more lickly to eat crickets and less green's....
as they become adult its turned around and they eat more greens then crickets..
just a note

good luck with your eggs and beared dragon

Christina

Alright so the one baby hatched this is a picture of him
baby in tank

-----
"Speak softly to my lizard fair nor raise your hand to me, For they are quick to take offense And quicker to champion me." ~Anne McCaffrey.

1.1 Bearded Dragon
2.2 Leopard Gecko
1.1 Blood Corn
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Mali Uromastyx

As the female who laid this clutch of eggs was ill and calcium deficient (it would have been better not to breed her at all if she was already sick, unless she was bred before you got her) that would be the main reason the eggs didn't develop well. It is good you are getting some hatching now.

Baby bearded dragons are fine in a small cage once their egg yolk is absorbed and don't need to be offered food for a few days. After a couple days, offer 1/8th inch crickets (pinheads), small phoenix worms and very finely chopped greens (probably won't eat these at all but some will so it won't hurt). Keep them very well hydrated with frequent misting (don't mist the cage heavily though, a spurt or two on the dragon and maybe the side of the cage is fine). Once they are eating, offer food 3-5 times a day spread out every 2-3 hours. Dust with calcium powder as BDLvr suggested above.

For the two year old female, once she's out of quarantine with a clean fecal from a vet (one month is ok, though three months is better with three clean fecals to make sure all is well). Then you can start preparing to breed her for the new season. It may be a bit later than others, but best to have a healthy parasite clean pair of dragons than to rush too soon only to have one get sick or suffer problems during or after laying eggs. Brumation may also be needed to get both dragons fully 'primed' for breeding.

BDLvr and others here have alot more experience breeding dragons than I do. I pretty much know things from reading but experience has its value as well.

For incubation, the hova-bators are fine, just don't use the models with the fan. You should be able to disable or just remove the fan in your current incubator. Vermiculite is fine as an incubation medium as long as its moist enough without being too moist. Perlite can be used as well or even a mix of the two. Just measure the medium and water by weight, not volume, and shouldn't be any problems. For bearded dragons I think its a 1:1 ratio by weight of medium and water. OR dampen so you can squeeze the medium hard without any drops of water coming out, but it clumps together nicely.

Also remember that a healthy female bearded dragon can easily lay 3-5 clutches a season, with each clutch being laid 3-4 weeks apart on average. Some bearded dragons have lain clutches barely two weeks apart. So always be prepared to toss in the egg laying bin for your female to lay her eggs. Use frequent dusting of calcium without vitamin A or phosphorus, use a good UVB bulb or an hour of sunlight a day (direct sunlight, not filtered through glass, basically take her outside for natural sunlight several times a week for an hour or so, weather permitting).

If she stresses alot when being taken outside, then best to just stick with a good UVB bulb.
-----
PHLdyPayne

1/8" crickets are really way too small. I am extremely conservative with food size and start them with 3/16" but 1/4" is really fine. My main reason for 3/16" is because in a week a 3/16" cricket will be a 1/4" cricket and I buy all my crickets in bulk so I have to plan for what the cricket size will be when I feed the last one out. I know breeders that feed 3/8" to hatchlings.

A couple of comments....the coarse variety of vermiculite holds the moisture better than the finer stuff that you used. You might have better luck with your eggs not drying up if you use it.

Also, I never incubate eggs from different species in the same container. They often have different humidity requirements (as you are finding out) and different lengths of incubation and you are cross-contaminating...any germs, etc. from one species may be causing problems for the other species of eggs that you are keeping in the same container.

Your little baby looks quite healthy....and I'm glad it hatched to carry on the line of its mother. Sorry you lost her too.