Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok well i have a three toed box turtle and i dont know if its a male or female i though it was a female but....she is a year in ahlf old...anyway heres the info:

ok i keep her in a large vision tub with topsoil and moss that i spray everyday for extra humidity...i got some logs and rocks from the forest that i put in there for hiding and stuff...i also have dried up leaves too...and artificial vines hanging,... and a log tunnel from the petstore that she goes in to hide.....at one end there is a dish for her to soak,eliminate,anddrink....and there is a sun mercury vapor light that gives off uva,uvb,heat,and light...i feed her kale,romaine lettuce, carrots, cucmber,strawberies,blueberries,apple,orange,grapes,and sometimes banana, also i feed her silkworms, tomato hornwomrs,earthwomrs, and occasionally mealworms...and boiled chicken, raw steak, and high quailty dog food....i let her out in the sun every now and then too....and let her run around the apartment...i really wanted to breed her but she is too young..i have also been thinking of getting another turtle for her but im not sure if she is male or female...most likely female...if i did get another turtle could i put them together right away or leave them seperate for a couple weeks?? well all the help i could get would be great!!! is all the stuff above good for my three toed box turtle?? thanks

your turtle would really do better if it was outside, if your sure your turtle is a 3-toe there are a few ways to tell the sexes apart, though sometimes they can be wrong
1) Males Have red/brihgt orange eyes, females have brown/reddishbrown/light orange eyes

2) Males have bright colouration on they front forelimbs and neck/face, females can have some colour but usually not as bright

3) male 3-toeds have shell pattern.. I have yet to find a female with a pattern (though I might be wrong on this one)

4) Females have short Thin tails with the cloaca just outside of the shell, males have thick tails with the cloaca further down almost in the middle of the tail.

with that said, if your turtle is not old enough to breed then you may not be able to sex her properly, how old is your turtle?
personally if you plan on keeping the turtle inside I dont think you should get another, most people here will tell you turtles dont do well inside,
the diet you listed looks okay, I'd lay off on the oranges though as they can be too acidic,
hope that helps

If you can get some photos from all angles, we might be able to ID the sex, but I can tell you that until they are at least 3 or 4 years old, sex is very hard to determine reliably. Also, three-toed box turtles are the hardest of the north american species to sex.

Indoors is not a great way to keep boxies. I use indoor housing only for their first year of life, to monitor them and skip their first hibernation. After that they live outdoors in a 9'x3' pen, very easy to construct and the lid is just prehung chain link fence gates and pipe supports, held up or down by bungie cords.

We keep lids on our smaller turtles' pens.

photo albums of our pens and turtles

ok well i cant keep her outdoors because i live in an apartment but when i move i will make her an outdoor enclosure and also i think she is a female because she kinda has brownish-light orange-kinda not really red eyes and she doesnt have all the dark colors on her feet and face just a little orange and stuff shes a year in a half old...and well i really wanted to get antoher turtle!! soo could i please get one?? i think she would also like it much better because she would have company and i read that three toeds sometimes get lonely...and i still do let her outside occasionally its just the lanlord wouldnt let us keep the turtle out there and someone would probably steal it....sooo all of the other stuff is good?? wen i get done with her tub i will take some pictures ad post them up there...she is a year in half old!!

If she's a year and a half old, she is not much more than a few inches in size and you have several years yet until you can accurately tell her sex.

Whoever told you box turtles need company or get lonely was fibbing. It's simply not true. There is only one species of turtle in the world that is known to have group socialization and that is the Aldabra tortoise. Box turtles can live just fine, and sometimes better, lives by themselves. Males will fight sometimes, males can stress out a single female in a small cage (any cage smaller than 8'x8' is not really suitable to house a male and female together, the male will harass the female and stress her out).

First, you NEED to know the sex of your turtle; do not house two males together in a small cage, nor a male and female. Second, you will find it nearly impossible to find a turtle of comparable size if you have a 1.5 year old. Don't house turtles of different sizes together, as the larger ones can harm the smaller accidentally, but with deadly consequences.

Your best bet is to wait until you are moving into a place with a yard you can put a pen in. Hopefully by that time your other turtle will have grown up to a size where it can handle other turtles and you can accurately tell it's sex and thus know what you would purchase to add.

Almost every keeper (at least every responsible keeper) who breeds has theirs in HUGE pens with males outnumbered by females. This reduces stress and keeps up their health.

my 2 male and 3 female three-toeds live in a 16'x16' pen.

my cage for her is 76" W by 40" D by 22" W its the large vision tub and i dont really know how old my turtle is actually..i got her at a petstore and she was 4 in. and they told me she was a female...i think she is female but....and i might not be moving for a while sooo shell just have to be indoors for a couple years...and i would feel bad to leave her outside because she has never been outside before to like live and she might get eaten or something...but wen i do tell her sex which im pretty sure is female then could i get another three toed?/

if you get another box turtle, you really are risking the health of both in a small environment such as this with turtles at close to adult size. 4 inches can be nearly full grown for a three-toed box turtle. If it was 4 inches a year and a half ago, it is likely old enough to sex by now, but photos would help us tell you (an inexperienced person with three-toeds is most likely not going to be able to do it).

Also, don't mix a male and a female in such a small space. The female would be hounded endlessly and become stressed. Male box turtles do not give up easily when they are in the mood.

I really would encourage you to wait until you can house them properly before considerring more turtles. An outdoor pen is best, and a very large outdoor pen with a group that has more females than males is the best way to have mixxed company.

Besides which, if you want to have a pair (bad idea, trio's are better, but again, only with enough room), I'm assuming it's because you want them to breed. A stressed female will NOT lay eggs, she could even develop eggs and retain them, becoming egg bound. Providing a nesting spot indoors is a pain in the butt, as is simulating nesting conditions. Also, without weather and seasons, box turtles will lose their sex drive and stop mating all together as they become out of sync with each other. Females don't have any particular drive to allow males to mate, males mate at odd times, eggs don't get developed, etc.

I breed both three-toeds and easterns and have no luck indoors. One guy I know has luck indoors, and has for a few years now, but still isn't sure if it's a good long term solution. He built a huge enclosure into a room with lighting and misting systems like a zoo exhibit. He's probably spent more on one setup for a group than I have on all my outdoor setups combined, and I am housing over 30 turtles in breeding groups spread over 7 pens.

Do not feel bad about them living outside. They do MUCH better outdoors and are MUCH healthier for it.

In any case, if you choose to ignore the experience of other keepers and get another, make sure you find someone who can verify the sex of your turtle. If it is female, get another female of nearly the same size. Quarantine the new female. Take both your old and new turtles to the vet with fecal samples for checks. Deworm them. Make sure the vet OK's putting them together. Pet stores are a nightmare of germ and parasite breeding grounds and any animal from them is a danger to others.
If you have a male... I would advise against getting a female, but I would also advise against a male in such a small space.

BTW, my hatchlings from '01 (now two years old) are around 3 inches on average and can sit on the palm of my hand without touching the edges or my fingers. Yours is likely not a really young animal.

ok i cant put mine outdoors i live in an apartment!! and your not allowed to sell the turtles until they are 4in. i think mine was about 3 in a half to 4 in. wen i got mine...i have to keep her indoors...if u go to big apple herps the website and look under VISION TUBS (large) than that is wat i was going to get but now im in a chat room and they are saying to just get a really big rubbermaid tub...could i do that?? if so how big 55 gallons?? please help me with the cage!!

o and how heavy should the turtle be?? she is pretty heavy but i mean how heavy??

2 of my adult 3-toeds are 4 1/2" my huge female is about 5 1/4"
4" is about adult size for 3-toeds biggest I've ever heard of was 6"
is there anyway you can build a big indoor enclosure atleast 6'x4'?

well could i just use a rubbermaid tub instead of a vision tub?? and could it be like 55 gallons?? or like 2 by 4 feet??

Well, your best bet for the having healthy turtles and breeding is to wait until your situation is better suited to them. Just like if you wanted a large breed of dog that was not suited to your apartment, your living situation should have an effect on what kinds of reptiles you keep. Turtles are pretty unique in that they do better outside, and box turtles are the most extreme in this sense.

I've seen the vision cages you speak of. I wouldn't keep an adult box turtle in anything less than an 8'x8' pen now. I used to use a 4'x8' pen. All my pens now are 16'x8' or double that for adults. I would also never keep a box turtle indoors after it's first year. When I put mine out after one year indoors, they immediately start growing more rapidly and becoming more active. I'm timid about putting them out earlier because I want to be sure they are eating a variety of foods before I do so, and I want to skip hibernating them their first year.

This is just what I have learned over the last 21 years of keeping box turtles. Most long term keepers (actually around 99%) have learned the same thing and will agree. No one can tell you what turtle you can or can't buy or how to house it, but we can tell you what works for healthy animals and for breeding, and indoors, small cages, and pairs (1:1 ratio) are all bad for this. You can choose to do this anyway, but I think you will find it expensive to set up and maintain, troublesome to upkeep, and ultimately have less healthy animals that breed very little.

Oh, and hobbyists can sell turtles under 4". Commercial businesses cannot. I don't sell my hatchling box turtles, I give them away to combat wild caught animals being sold (which 99.999999999999999999% of pet store animals are). Some states can individually ban the sale of turtles, period. So it may be relevant for the salesperson to check their state laws, but you can undoubtedly buy turtles, as that is not illegal.

And in answer to your other post, a turtle should feel "heavier than it looks". If it feels heavy in your hand, that is good. It's when they seem light for their size that you should be worried.

One of the reasons indoor housing is bad, is that it doesn't provide a light cycle that includes morning and evening as dimmer periods that are cooler, which is when box turtles are most active. Another reason is the lack of weather, including dry periods, rainy days, overcast days, etc. Not to mention the lack of seasons for their internal clocks to set to.

i cant help that i have i have to keep my turtle indoors if i could keep it outdoors i would but i cant..so i am asking you how big of an indoor enclosure should be and it cant be like the size of my room would like 55 gallons be big enough or 2 by 4 or 5 feet??

As BIG a set-up as you possibly can build/buy. You MUST provide a temperature gradient (warm end/cool end), adequate lighting, minimum humidity levels, water dish, hide box, etc.And in with all this stuff, your turtle needs room to walk around, and you need to be able to reach in to clean up.
Bigger is definitely much better.

Then save your extra money for a downpayment on a house with a yard.

Great looking setup! This is a good example of a box turtle setup that keeps turtles healthy!

Good predator cover on top too.

Dennis

ok well now i am pretty sure i will get a 55 gallon rubbermaid either roughtote or something...i will keep spaghnum moss and topsoil in for her substrate she will have several logs and a log tunnel from petco...also like 7 rocks or so in there big and small...i will be hanging an artificial vine in there as well for her to go under or just something...on one end it will be like 85 degrees because of the sun mervury vapor light and on that same end the cat litter box will be there too for her to go in and soak and poo and drink...on the other end she will have her hiding spots,logs,rocks, and such...i also saw some of this grass for all animals at petco and it looks neat so i will be getting that as well to place in her cage...and maybe one day i will even get another turtle for her to have...i will spray her cage everyday to make it extra humid...i may hibernate her if she shows the signs ut if not then i wont and i will just let her swin in the bath tub(dont worry the water wont be too high) and i will make sure to feed her too during hibernation. and she will also be by a window so she can get some sun in although she already has the mercury light...i will let her outside as much as possible to roam around....and let her roam around my house....so far i think it will be a pretty good INDOOR enclosure...o and i will be putting in dried leaves as well and some shredded newspaper...do i need plants in there?? because i heard they will most likely die or become moldy because of the humidity and such...well how do u think its going so far??

o and maybe instead of a 55gallon rubbermaid rought tote or something do you think i could make a cage for my turtle its called cubes and coroplast its really for guinea pigs but i think it would make a good turtle enclosure...and for the coroplast i could make the bottom higher up for more bedding please go to cavycages.com and you could look at some of the cages there..i really like them and i am making one for my two guinea pigs now...but would that be good? thanks

the vision is more than 6 feet by two feet, more than tweleve square feet.
the 55 gallon rubberm,aids are only like 7 and 1/2 square feet
get the visiion if you can afford it or get a big stock tank ot kiddie pool.
or better yest save money:
buy some wood and screws and a drill and MAKE an enclousre. its easy to make one that's attractive to you and is big for the turtle and fits conveniently somewhere in your house; its basically just a box with a place to hang lights on top.
those rubbermaid things might be okay for a hatchling but they are too small for your turtle.

ooo well is there any bigger rubbermaids? do they go past 55 gallons?? if so i would just get a bigger one

ok well umm im now going to take 2 31 gallon rubbermaid roughtotes and cut the plastic on the sides and either use aquarium sealent or melt them together or something...do u have any ideas on how i could do that?? i would either join them from the long/wide side or the short side which would be better?? so it would either be really long or just wide.....if it was long it would be 4ft by 1ft. well just give me the best info possible thanks!

what about a kiddie pool? They cost about 6 bucks at wal-mart and have a lot of floor space (for a cheap indoor solution).

Thanks a bunch.
It's ironic, but I need more space for my turtles than I do for my german shepherds. Those big dogs are great at relaxing when it's appropriate and enjoying a good run when they can. The turtles are slowly taking over the back yard!

well i already have a kiddy pool so i might just use that for now... and then get the large vision tub layer since the kiddy pool is not big enough....

floor space is your big concern calculate the floor space of the kiddie pool and the vision tub. For the rectangular vision cage, just multiply length times width. For the circular kiddie pool, measure the distance across, divide it by two to get the radius, then use 3.14 X radius X radius to get the floor area.

well actually would the medium vision tub which is like 5.5ft. by 3ft. be big enough for my 5in. turtle??

I wouldn't use it, but perhaps someone else here has some other opinion on how to make it work.

Also, if forced, and I mean FORCED to house a box turtle indoors (it would take some serious issues to make me do this, I am so against it cause I know it's a mistake) I would not waste money on expensive cages, but just go for the cheapest biggest thing I could find or build, then make sure it was waterproof, and add lighting, substrates, plants, etc. and go do my pest to keep the turtle alive until outdoor space was available.

well 200$ is a lot but all the other things like the kiddy pool, two rubbermaid tubs put together...and everything else ppl say is too small...how big do they need? is 5.5ft. by 3ft. big enough for 1 turtle?

nevermind...im going to have my turtle in a 3.5ft by 7ft enclosure made out of pvc plastic for about a year maybe....well

hi ok ok ok i know i keep changing but would a rubbermaid roughtote 55 gallons be good?? i mean i talked to someone that has the same kind of turtle as me and said that would be fine cuz one of hers lives in it and i do think it would be fine too i mean she gets let out pretty much everday too run around my house sooo i dont see wat the big deal is but if not then i could put together a 50 gallon with a 30 gallon i mean would that be better for ya?? and i have these silk fines would that be good?? but wat if she chews them is that bad??

Is it true that female three-toeds never have good colorization? I just ordered a three-toed, which is coming next week, as a companion for my male, and I asked the guy to pick me out a colorful female out of his adult group. He didn't tell me I was crazy, so what gives? Am I going to get a male that he thinks is female, or is a colorful female possible?

it's all relative. You won't find a female three-toed that looks as good as most males, but there are some that are more attractive than average. Most three-toed females are pretty plain, though. Plain does not mean unpretty or uninteresting, however! I love my plain janes and they do all the breeding in my threetoed group.

some female 3-toeds do have some colour on their chin and neck.. rarely on the face, you getting your turtle from the kingsnake classifieds?

Thanks. I'm not too concerned that this is going to be a prize-winning looker at all. What I really want is a female, plain and simple. I just hope that my instructions don't result in a sexually ambiguous male who happens to be colorful! I did not realize that my request was contradictory in nature.

I will have to be diligent in identifying the sex ASAP when the turtle is shipped so I can procure an exchange if necessary. Perhaps if I get a freak female who is very colorful, I will post her picture for you!

Are you talking about coloration in the head, shell, or both?
Out of my group of 3 toeds, the ones with the prettiest shells, are males, but also have males that have plain shells. I wouldn't describe the pretty shells as colorful though, just more pattern to them. My female Michelle looks as if her shell might have been pretty, but it has alot of abrasion type damage on it, but I can see enough to tell there would be a pattern, although it would still be more muted than a similarly patterned male. I think both males and females are capable of having attractive heads, although you probably won't see reds on female heads.

I was just referring to general high color, whether it be in the head, neck, arms, or shell. My male three-toed has absolutely no patterns or colors on his shell, although it is nicely formed. He has no reds on his foreparts, actually, but a series of creamsicle-like oranges and yellows.

Of course, I will be happy with a healthy and productive specimen no matter how much color she has or does not have. I have owned my male since I was in 5th grade, which was about 12 years ago! Now that I have graduated from college and can strike out on my own, I feel I have the ability to provide the care and space for him to have a companion. I just hope that the decade of sexual frustration doesn't compel him to overwhelm her with advances right off the bat.