Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

I was thinking about going exclusively to ASF's for my collection. I'm worried about selling offspring and the new owners not being able to get them to eat. I know everyone will say "don't do it", but does anyone have actual experience getting a baby ball started on ASF's to eat other pinks after 3-4 meals or more?

thanks,

Steve Harrison
J-ville, FL

I would learn how to start babies before I fed asf rats.You will be better off in the long run.Terry

I have sired (not myself, of course!) several clutches and started many, many babies, that is not the point!

Stevo

Then why would you consider useing african rats.Did you notice the albino ball for $500 in the classifieds being sold at this price because it will only eat gerbils.My advise for what it is woth is dont use them unless you have to.Terry

OK- an outdoor building it is! Rats breed like crazy anyway, but I am going to keep some ASF's for difficult feeders- my own stock. This was a great discussion,

Thanks Terry!

Stevo

All of my babies get whatever I have available. They switch from rat pinks to mice to ASF's and don't really seem to care wich one they get. I do have a couple picky babies that will not eat rats but they take mice or ASF's fine and don't seem to get stuck on one or the other. If I was selling any of my babies this year I would probably give the ones that were being sold rats only. Just so the buyer would not have anything to worry about.
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John Vandegrift

That is what I do with mine what ever I have, I would say 90% will take whatever you give them. As far as exclusivly using ASF and selling the offsping it may be a problem, Maybe feed the ASF to the ones you plan on holding back, the ones you are going to sell feed them mice and rats, so the person buying can feed them. Not everyone can easily get a hold of ASF.

I was thinking the same thing. The only problem I encounter is that rats smell really bad, and my room for them is in my garage. As soon as the AC runs, it pulls the smell from the room into the house, making the lovely bride quite upset! I've heard that ASF's do not smell, so I was hoping to cure that problem!

Any thoughts?

Stevo

Oh yeah, it's a holiday! Us realty people are out bangin' as of 1pm!

Peace,

Steve Harrison

I have never worked with ASF so I have no clue about there smell. I have all my rodents in my basement I just keep a minimal amount of males. the females are not as bad. My daughters have three females as pets in there room and they clean the tank at least once a week and there is no smell. If they let it go longer then it gets stinky. Maybe cut back on the males.

Actually I am at work. I got stuck being on call today.
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John Vandegrift

I agree with melinda - try cutting back on your number of males. One male can service four or five females, especially if you rotate them (rat harem, anyone?). Try different bedding, as well, or maybe just cleaning it more often. I used to use pine bedding, and had to clean every 5 days or else they REEKED. I use aspen now and the smell is much less. Sanichips might be another option.

Let us know how the ASF do, smell wise, compared to the rats. Just to put this out there- gerbils smell WAY less than rats or mice do. Even the boys.

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

I breed both asf and large rats.The asf have a particular smell to them that drives even the pickiest feeders to eat and as far as breeding them they do smell LESS than the rats.Also I believe they are easier to breed then regular rats.

>>I breed both asf and large rats.The asf have a particular smell to them that drives even the pickiest feeders to eat and as far as breeding them they do smell LESS than the rats.Also I believe they are easier to breed then regular rats.

I've got a really old,very LTC female that seems to want asf exclusively now that i have offered them to her...It was a last resort,but she was just wasting away ever since she had laid a clutch for me..(She ate rats just fine up until then...very strange!..and aggrivating!)
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Charles Glaspie

balls switch all the time...one year it eats anyhting that moves the next it will eat just rats then switch to just mice and with ASF or gerbils being offered we ruin them for life by making them picky feeders.......I have alot of pain in the butt balls......some eat exclusively chinese hamsters.......(2 , and one ate rats or mice last year)......

......and not all balls will even look at an ASF......adult and/or baby, I have alot of balls that won't touch them........I have balls that won't even eat a gerbil, but slam mice all the time....

balls suck at times........

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.....too many BIG girls.........

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I find them much easier to breed. I can leave the ASFRs in one big colony and they take care of each other's stray babies. With my rats the males will eat the offspring given the chance, so I have to use lots of mom/pinky cages to keep them safe.

in mice the mothers usually eat each others kids.....check the protein of their food.......

in rats......the same is true..mothers eat other kids.......or fight over control till they just kill the kids from over attention or lack of feeding......or at times just rip a hole in them then eat them anyways....

.......I gang breed rats then put pregnant mothers into a lab tank by themselves to rear the litter......you can pull rats apart then re-intoduce them back into the colony without fighting , unlike mice.....

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.....too many BIG girls.........

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.......I gang breed rats then put pregnant mothers into a lab tank by themselves to rear the litter......you can pull rats apart then re-intoduce them back into the colony without fighting , unlike mice.....

This is basically what I've been doing. When I see a female getting big I move her to big apple herp rodent bin for the duration. The ASFR are easier because you don't need to do this.

people buying any snake expect it to eat mice r rats and some prefer just rat eaters, and shy away from mouse eaters.....I feed anything and everything to balls except the babies, they get mice, if they want rat eaters I can switch some over for them.........

mice colonies here are 1.14 to start ,, rats are 1.9 only because I can't fit more girls in the cage, and ASF are 1.3 per tank....gerbils and chinese by the pairing....

mice reek with 1000 here plus kids, rats stink after a week, and gerbils smell different, yet smell after 10 days , chinese ,again ,a different smell yet more bearable and cleaned every 10 days plus, and ASF really stink if you let them go, but clean them enough and the odor is not bad, and not noticable in the room with the other 1000 critters.......

as for the origional topic.......do NOT use ASF for any baby you plan on selling..........
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.....too many BIG girls.........

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My ASFs smell much less than my rats & mice do.

I'm such a wuss though, b/c I think the ASFs are just too cute to use as feeders.

The ASFRs drink a lot less and urinate a lot less than rats, so you can go much longer between cleanings.

I have an ASFR cage in my snake room that hasn't been cleaned in months due to the constant presence of new pinkies, and I can't smell it. The rats in my garage build up a urine smell pretty quickly, so I'm moving toward mostly using ASFRs now.

They produce a lot of offspring and become pregnant right after giving birth, so I find them to be nice feeders.

I agree with others that anything for sale should be on mice or rats since the ASFRs are banned in some southwestern states, and hard to find in many areas.

Steve,
I am not trying to be a jerk but I would never buy a Ball Python from someone that was feeding ASF’s to their hatchlings.
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Albey Scholl
Albeys Too Cool Reptiles
Email Me

I agree!!
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

Wouldn't surprise me if African Soft Furred Rats eventually replacing Norway Rats as the staple for ball pythons and perhaps the whole industry.

1. Smell better.
2. Sounds like they are lower maintenance to breed (no moving females around).
3. Perhaps even more prolific.
4. If not a cure all at least better acceptance for most picky ball pythons.

The one disadvantage I have heard of ASFR is they might be more dangerous to the snakes as live feeders than Norway rats after hundreds of generations of domestication.

But for now for marketing reasons you might be best to plan a Norway rat colony around when you are going to have baby snakes to start. Maybe you could only breed them a few months a year?

I got 8 females back from a breeding loan that had been eating ASFR for a fair amount of time. Most went immediately back to Norway rats. Two held out for several months so I bought them ASF rats and they ate immediately but one of those two has since eaten two Norways now (the other was in shed but I hope to try her tonight). Another that had been known to be picky anyway didn't eat for several months but broke her fast with a Norway last night without offering an ASFR.

I'm also considering setting up a colony of ASFR if I can talk the wife into letting me breed any rodents again. Years ago I used to breed calico Syrian hamsters and trade them for Norway rats because the hamsters smelled so much better than the rats.

The first couple meals I offer all the hatchlings nothing but rat pups. After I figured out who is going to be stubborn I offer those individuals Asf's and just switch them back again to rats once I get their feeding response kicking in high gear (4-5 Asf meals). They all switch back to rats just fine.

I have a couple of larger females that want Asf's but I usually trick them into taking a nice size rat almost every time. II either tease them a bit with a Asf then just toss a rat in at that last second or rub the little stinkin Asf all over the rat real good before I offer it up. It's been working great. larry

Please will someone clarify exactly what is "ASFs" ??

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Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

Hey,

Thanks for all the replies. JHoye, I've been doing rats and mice sucessfully for a long time and you REALLY know what you are talking about. Anyone with rodent questions should defer to him.

Alby, I was thinking the same thing as well- if I would buy from an ASF only animal. Probly not, so I'll do Norways for hatchlings, and scent the pinks w/ ASF's for difficult ones.

On a side note- anyone know about venting a room and how I could have it set so my jumper duct to the rat room didn't pull smell into the house?

Thanks,

Stevo

If I were you I wouldn't breed rodents in house. If you're only breeding small numbers then it's not too big of a deal.

I did it and ended up having to get my whole central air system cleaned and detailed becasue after awhile the odor just works it way in there. When it's gets all through the system it's there for good. Rodent smell after awhile will even pass through walls and break way into the whole house. (try explaining that to the ole'lady) I had great ventilation that ran 24/7 too along with industrial grade vapor barrier plastic covering the walls.

Be wise and get a shed or some type of outdoor building. Just run some power to it and hook up a small a/c unit for summer. You'd be glad you did.
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Bluegrass_Reptiles_llc