Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I really havent been following these guys, they are very beautiful. Whats the deal with the Super Phantom and Super Chocolate are they similar genetically to each other? They look similar to me...almost.

Thanks.

Note remotely similar.

Super Phantom is not a patternless dark snake like the Super Cinny or Super Black Pastel. The Super Phantom is quite rare and Ralphie is the ONLY show in town that has any.

I think most if not all super cinnies have a pinched nose...I think possibly Gulf Coast may have some that have less of this thing. It is not a big deal but it may be a bit odd to the purist....

Me, I am as pure as.....

SATAN

>>I really havent been following these guys, they are very beautiful. Whats the deal with the Super Phantom and Super Chocolate are they similar genetically to each other? They look similar to me...almost.
>>
>>Thanks.
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Not the Super Cinny or Super Black Pastel or the combination of the two (best method..??). I know what the all brown/black snake is - and I love the sleek sexy look of them FAR better than the all white snake. The all black snake is so sexy... like a black on black BMW or Angelina Jolie in a tight black dress.. HOT!!

However, I mean the Super Chocolate from BHB Enterprises shown in Daytona this year, compared with Ralph Davis's Super Phantom..they look like they share similar genetic traits to me? JMHO however...

~Aan

They do look similar in those Daytona photos recently posted. I hadn't really noticed it that much before. Maybe it’s just the pictures.

Has anyone crossed the chocolates into the white snake complex yet to test for compatibility? Just from the few pictures I've seen the chocolate looks different from the phantom but interesting the similarities between their supers. Maybe they are yet another allele of the now not always so white snake complex.

Some have said that the animal pictured below looks a little chocolate like but I know almost nothing about the chocolates so certainly couldn't support that observation. I was actually hoping they where more like the phantom or mojave but hadn't really thought that they could all be related.

And here is one of her more mojave looking offspring (at least slightly enough mojave looking to support my arrangements to try to have mom bred to a lesser and mojave this winter).

Randy,

It appears to me the daughter does have some of the chocolate look to her, similar to that expressed by the BHB Super Chocolate. To me (at least) the "alien head" portion of this girl and the Super Chocolate look similar to the Sables with the dark blotching in the circular area? The Super Phatom, however, at least from the pics I have seen (I really havent been following these that closely), seems to have more of a Mojave look to it? I really think many of these are more closely related than the names state. I guess time will tell in the end?

~Alan

Just to be clear I don't think either of the animals I pictured are homozygous mutants like the super phantom or super chocolate. They may well not be anything nearly as nice as or related to either but I posted them for comparison with the heterozygous versions, the phantom and the chocolate.

I mainly find it interesting that if the Daytona pictures are accurate the homozygous phantom and homozygous chocolate look a lot like each other even though the pictures I’ve seen of their heterozygous versions don’t.

Right, I knew what you meant Randy. There does appear to be some similarity between the two Supers from Daytona. I was referring to the girls you posted just for comparisons sake, I didnt think you were trying to pass them off for anything other than unproven, interesting animals you are working with currently. I do see where someone could see similarities with them and some existing morphs. Also, I really do think that many of the proven morphs are more closely related than people may think. That you can make a white snake so many different ways is more than just coincidence in my mind.

But I'm working on it!!

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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

Wow! What is that? With the completely closed circles it sure looks like some of the proven morphs.

Mojave...from breeding to a very dark normal. Got 4 of them which leads me to believe there is something genetic to breed for later. Really made my day when Ralph Davis said they were
"Bad A$$" lol.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

Thanks!

I think you may have a super of sorts there. Did you also get some regular mojaves or any “dark normals” and regular normals in the mix? Does your dark normal happen to have a white belly? Care to share pictures?

If you got any males like the one pictured a good test will be to breed them to several normal females. If your "dark normal" is another mutant allele of the same gene as lesser/mojave/phantom/Vin Russo high yellow lemon/etc./etc. then you should get a 50/50 split of dark normals and mojave. But if it's a separate gene that just combines well with mojave then you should get some normals and some like the one in the picture too. You will probably also want to breed one back to the dark normal (mom I presume) ASAP and see what the homozygous version of that mutation looks like (assuming the original dark normal isn't already homozygous and dominant and produces all dark babies).

The Mojaves all have the same thing going on...2 are better than the others. Normals are just normal...something there just clicked with the Mojave gene I think. I got 2.2 on the Mojaves with 1.1 of them being the 2 best ones, so luckily my options are wide open for future breeding. Here's a picture of mom's belly and this is right after shed...let me know what you think.

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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

Thanks again!

Not what I'd call a white belly. It will be interesting to see if she keeps producing only dark mojaves which would tend to indicate she is homozygous for whatever that something special is that she adds to Mojave. I was going to ask if she could be a cinnamon but I don't think so with that belly.

Best of luck with this project and please post what you get from future clutches.