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To anyone voicing your opinion about how you think I was bitten, I would appreciate if you kept the slander to a minimum. To those that find it necessary to attack me on assumptions based on what you may read in a news paper or see on TV does nothing to me accept make me realize how bored and shallow the people in this community can be. Being as judgenental as some of you are without knowing me, my background, my knowledge, or just the facts in general is nothing that I would put the word professional in the same sentence with. I don't attack anybody on this or any other site. To kick a man while he is down on top of it is a cowardly act. I am flattered you all care so much about me to take time out of your life to construct gossip like children. Your envy of my sucess will be noted. If anyone is in search of facts feel free to message me. I am a man of HONOR and RESPECT and will respond to anyone with the same manners. If you write just to judge or attack me you will get nothing. I hope noone on this site ever has to go through what I have this week. The gossip on these forums is childish. Some of you think I have no business to be in your classification to handle venomous, you are right. Handling Venomous Snakes is for Mentally Mature people not kids.....So Grow UP! None of you against me can take 20 years of what I have seen and done for this profession. To those that have respect for me I THANK YOU!

Respectfully

David Weathers

P.S. I am not meaning any disrespect by any of the above statements. The ones that it was meant for, I apologize if my honesty and the truth offends you.

While I may have disagreements with some people on this website, I do fully agree with their accusations of being irresponsible on your part. The very last thing this hobby needs is a so- called professional being bitten by one of his hots. Your accusers are not being childish, but concerned for the welfare of your animals and the preservation of their beloved hobby. I think this link pretty much sums up your handling techniques in a nutshell.
Link

The first rule of thumb is that if you handle venomous long enough its likely you'll be bitten. If you do sensational shows your chances increase dramatically. Personally I think people here have been a little too judgemental. How many of you out there have been bitten? How many times has D. weathers been bitten? I had strict guidelines for husbandry and had 3 bites occur in about 30 years. Not bad considering the 10's of thousands sold but its still 3 too many. Why not let Dave tell us how many times he's been tagged and over what period of time? REMEMBER HE WHO LIVES IN A GLASS HOUSE SHOULDN'T THROW STONES!!! The worst thing about all of it is the negative publicity generated. Lets not throw more fuel on the fire as its warm enough already...thanks...T. Crutchfield

I understand all of your points but whats right and wrong is all that matters in the end and it is wrong to assume by my shows that I don't have the knowledge or use techniques that apply to safe handling. I encourage it to all my students for I feel everyone cant do what I can with these animals. I admire everyones passions for their "HOBBY" but its my job and way of life. For anyone to judge that is wrong. To set the record straight since your imaginations are stereotyped to thinking this is how I was bit, you are wrong. I have never in 20 years been bit by a snake while performing, sorry to let everyone down. My ONLY 2 bites were both in the privacy of my home doing routine procedures. They were both freak things that I can easily reflect to what I would have done different. That is all that is required so it doesn't happen twice. I hope this clears things up for some of you. Tom Crutchfield suggested I explain this. I didn't think I should explain myself for many of you let your assumtions control logic. I didn't stay in this field for 20 years cause I am careless. I take a known, calculated, and accepted risk for the lines I cross for my work. I repect that eveyone has a right to their opinion but not to be so critical without knowning my background. Anyone that knows me personally knows that I am not out to hurt the industry.

Thanks Tommy for the talk earlier.
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David Weathers
D-Dubs

I was going to leave all my opinions off the computer on this thread, as I did on the other that announced your bite, but there are a few things I want to mention/ask.

I will start out by saying I am glad you are alright.

I work with wildlife (mostly snakes) as a profession, and I had a conversation with a co-worker not too long ago about the wave of nature programming on television. I said that in a weird way, Wild Boys actually has the potential to be one of the best ones out there. My thought was entertained with an odd stare, but I was invited to continue.

My reasoning is that it somewhat takes a lot of the hype off of working with animals as an extremely "dangerous" profession. Some of the other shows out there raise excitement by working with the animals in a seemingly professional way, but still are always an eyelash away from death. Wild Boys leaves the danger factor to simply doing stupid stunts that really have nothing to do with anything but human stupidity.

The part where it is great as a "nature program" (I am sure I will have plenty of critics even when I loosely lump it in this category), is that it gets an otherwise clueless audience into the habitat of some of the less charismatic wildlife. Why I say it has the "potential," is because (as I am sure you agree) it could provide some valuable information about the conservation needs of said species. I think the message could still get out there through this odd venue, and the show can continue on with mindless entertainment. The audience could leave having gained some valuable knowledge...and never even know it between the laughs they have watching a guy throw up from eating poop.

The part that gets dangerously close to the irresponsibility I see in some of the other nature programs is that they have footage of "professionals" doing some of the dangerous animal work for them. If the professionals follow the same sensationalism as any other program, my theory of how Wild Boys is actually a better program falls down the drain. I bring this up because this is your job David, I would like to hear your take on it.

Now that I have added a few cents of opinion, I would also like to bring up that, since I have watched the shows, I have managed to pay a little attention to some things. There was an episode (I forget what was going on in the rest of it) where Knoxville was supposed to do something with a snake (I believe venomous), and he was given a hard time when he was hesitant, and told David Weathers does it all the time. His response was..."David Weathers has also been bit a few times." This was before your cobra bite, and certainly before this recent bite. I presumed Johnny Knoxville meant you had been bit a few times by venomous snakes, but you have only declared 2 bites from venomous snakes. Was being bit a few times a generalization for any snake? I have seen those guys get bit by non-venomous snakes before, and even a rear-fanged Leptophis, so I would not have thought being bit a few times by harmless snakes would have been a big deal. But maybe I am wrong.

Snakes are not my only thing. Bitten a few times was a TV thing . The Cobra bite was the only one at that time. The possibility of him referring to my other incidents with mammals and crocodilians throughout the last 2 decades.
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David Weathers
D-Dubs

I am glad to see you are okay and needless to say NONE of us wanted you dead.

Well, since I was talking about it down in a thread before you jumped in I figured it is only fair to present some of the questions/concerns directly to you.

To those that find it necessary to attack me on assumptions based on what you may read in a news paper or see on TV does nothing to me accept make me realize how bored and shallow the people in this community can be.

You present yourself regularly in the media, and of course what makes it to print is the stunts etc as that is what sells. However when you do things such as the photo below, there isn't much left for us left to assume.

It appears to be free handling a large EDB in a night club for a stunt. However, since you are an admitted stunt man everyone could talk about this for hours and it'd just be beating a dead horse unfortunately. I just wanted to point out then when you regularly present yourself in this way there are always going to be those that oppose you.

I am flattered you all care so much about me to take time out of your life to construct gossip like children.

If it was anyone else that had been bitten and made the press we'd be talking about it also. It is current news in herptoculture. It's what we do, it is what we enjoy. We talk snakes and snake related news. Had it been any other individual that is known for their stunts etc the same thing would've happened so it isn't for any particular like/dislike of you as an individual.

I hope noone on this site ever has to go through what I have this week.

I'm sure everyone here agrees with that... getting bit just flat out sucks.

None of you against me can take 20 years of what I have seen and done for this profession.

Possibly, but why would we want to?

I'll agree with you that what you do is a calculated risk. It is a great demonstration that these animals aren't so vile and out to kill as many people think they are. Human/reptile interactions can be amazing even if dangerous. Those that seriously keep reptiles know that the animals can be EXTREMELY forgiving, but eventually it does catch up.

I understand all of your points but whats right and wrong is all that matters in the end and it is wrong to assume by my shows that I don't have the knowledge or use techniques that apply to safe handling.

No one said you don't have the knowledge/responsibility to handle the animals in a proper manner, we just comment that you show evidence that when the camera is on you throw that aside for showmanship.

I admire everyones passions for their "HOBBY" but its my job and way of life.

I talk about it as a hobby, but for me and many others it is a way of life. I've based my academic career and my life around reptiles. It has put me through college for a B.S., I'm nearly done with my M.S. and along the way reptiles have been the #1 factor in the direction of my life. There are many others here that are zoo keepers etc and this "hobby" is also their lives. You're not the only one making their living working with these animals, others just choose to do it in other ways. I just don't understand how you are surprised that when you get on stage and strike a naked man with a whip and free handle venomous reptiles that it might make some people not take you seriously. How is throwing a king cobra in a horse trailer supposed to be taken as a positive?

I feel that I've kept things respectful and hope to hear from you.

Thanks,

Bobby Neal

First of all I would like to say I admire any man or woman that takes there passion and turns it into a profitable way of life. So many people out there don't have the ambition to do this. In my honest opinion everyone has there own right and wrong way to do things. While I would never handle a dangerous snake with bare hands like that I find it absolutely fascinating to see something like that, That being said I never agreed completely with Steve Irwin's way of doing things but look at what he did for reptiles in general and I will always credit him as a great guy and the sole person that got me interested in reptiles so many years ago. I do agree this could send the wrong message to the reptile keepers of tomorrow, however I can also argue that it is our responsibility to teach our children what is safe and unsafe to do, I am absolutely sure before you let a Rattle Snake bite a balloon in your mouth that you tell the crowd not to try this at home right? Either way its good to see someone making a good living out of what they love, Good to see it turned out ok "health wise" and be careful.
Foot Hill Reptiles

David,

First off, glad you are recovering well from the bite. As everyone is aware when it comes to venomous snakes, it could have been much worse.

While it is obvious that you possess a great deal of understanding and skill regarding the handling of venomous snakes, I suspect the real beef many people here have with you (myself included) is the machismo, circus act mentality that you put forth when performing with these animals. And as entertaining as Steve-O and the boys may be to watch sometimes, if for nothing else but their display of stupidity, putting yourself on the show and involving venomous reptiles is a sure-fire way to attract negative attention to yourself from the "responsible" venomous community.

One thing in particular that had me cringing was the scene in the Jackass II movie where a large king cobra was introduced into a small horse trailor with a seemingly horrified Bam Margera inside. I'm not sure whether the whole thing was faked or not (the snake is obviously real, but I'm referring to Bam's surprise and subsequent reactions regarding it, etc.), but that was one of the few times in my life I found myself hoping that the snake was a venomoid. Care to enlighten us whether it was or not? Regardless, you can't possibly expect people who are dedicated to responsible ownership of what the general public regards to be vile, dangerous, disgusting animals to take you seriously or even respect what you do after seeing that.

For those interested in seeing the clip, here it is.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pzAIJxY5nWI

Anyway, like I said, glad you're doing okay. Regardless of what anyone thinks of you here, I'm sure NO ONE would have liked to see you get hurt.

Abhishek Prasad

This I remember. When I first saw the scene, I was shocked and I too cringed to see the snake used. A friend of mine was watching the movie and his response was "I'm sure it's safe." He does not know a whole lot about snakes, but his mentality is that if it is done by professionals in a movie, then he is sure they have made sure it is safe for the "actors." This is a mentality I hate to see, as I am sure it gives too many people the impression that these venomoids are safe animals. And therefore...a king cobra would be a cool pet.

Now in all fairness, I sat there and thought about this in the big scheme of things. While I was a bit biased toward the venomous snake scene, it was nothing close to the danger of the fishing for sharks scene, or Johnny Knoxville's ride on the rocket after it had already blown a hole through the side once.

David is right about his calculated risk statement. However, it is unfortunately not a real good aspect to have out there for other people who work with snakes professionally, or simply have an extremely dedicated hobby that might be taken away in the near future.

Glad to hear that's the case...though as I said, I'm repulsed by the fact that I'm actually happy a snake is a venomoid. My personal feelings regarding that particular procedure are pretty strong.

David,

I am very happy that you are ok. I have been following the thread on you since it first went up. I am glad that you posted your comments on here to set the story straight. Personally I was tired of the comments getting out of hand. I normally dont post on threads but this one has hit home with me - so here is my 2 cents worth:

Every person has their ways of doing things - whether it has to do with snakes, clothes, cooking, fishing etc. We all have our preferences and we all have our opinions. I am one of the FEW and I do mean FEW, women in the great state of Florida who has their Venomous Reptile Permit. I dont take that lightly and I am very proud of it. And because I am a woman if I were to get tagged - I would have the same "kind" of post, NOT that I free handle my snakes - just simply "that women shouldnt be allowed" as I could see happening.

I have been handling hots for over 10 years now. I have had a great teacher. I would not consider free handling a venomous snake, nor will I ever, but I will not knock a person for doing it. Most of you say that this gives the venomous keepers a bad rep but I strongly disagree with that. David getting tagged has no bearing on what people think of me, as I am one of those who keep venomous snakes. People in general give me a look when I tell them I keep snakes, some think I am a devil worshiper, some think I am nuts, others dont know what to think. I will tell you now that I have no tattos or body peircings and I wear business suits every day to work. Many including Tom Crutchfield knows me.

As we are all aware - the simple fact is that by simply having a venomous snake we are all taking a RISK- one which we never or rarely speak of. It is our American right to make that choice. "People who live in glass houses should not cast stones" is a correct and fair statement.

You know I have seen others free handle venomous snakes on TV - but we are not making posts about them and what they do - nope! Could be that a) they are not as well known as David or b) it went unnoticed. Accidents do happen. That is a fact of life.

That is just my 2 cents worth! Thanks for listening. Beth

You know I have seen others free handle venomous snakes on TV - but we are not making posts about them and what they do - nope! Could be that a) they are not as well known as David or b) it went unnoticed. Accidents do happen. That is a fact of life.

Search the archives. There are actually pages and pages regarding other people (Irwin, Austin, etc) free handling reptiles.

It is wonderful how each has a unique story in what got you started and the path you are on. I was sorry to see so many put this guy down right away. I’m thinking maybe some of this brouhaha has something to do with us who are from Florida. We grew up with tourist attractions, gator wrestling, venomous snake shows and field herpin some of the most awesome stuff on the planet. This guy is like one of the guys in every neighborhood growing up down here. We could see Bill Haast throw a fourteen foot King cobra out on the lawn every Sunday and we’d get such a kick out of the gasps from the crowd of “out of towners”. (Hey David, maybe you should wear a lab coat!) A lot of us are not “lab rats”, we have learned this hobby from the muck and mosquito infested outdoors. I can see how some of the poindexters could never relate to somebody like this guy, but this is how most of us down here got started. Especially us older guys, before you just ordered everything over the internet and became an expert in your basement. No offense meant to anybody posting here.

Check out this link if you’d like to read about some early true Florida wildboys.
Click here

well said Charles!!! I have fond memories of Lester and the Wonder Gardens. I remember as a very young man in the early 1970's coming to Lester and asking him if I could buy some large Alligators for a small exhibit at a tourist attraction I had at the time. He knew I had little money and told me "hell no you can't buy any but I'll give you six but I get to pick them but you have to catch em". So G. weymouth. G. Campbell, and myself went down there. Lester said he had some big ones fighting that he didn't need. So I climbed thru that little square hole in the pit containing hundreds of 8-13' gators with a rope and waded in. I waded in and very carefully stepped over and around gators as Lester pointed out the ones he didn't want. The bottom was covered in algae and I had to be careful not to fall for obvious reasons. G. Weymouth had a large pole ready to hit any gator who attacked me. I would ease the rope over the alligator but NOT pulling it tight untill I slowly waded back and got out. Then we would pull and manhandle the gator out and tape it up. It took about half a day to complete this. When we finished we all went and had lunch. None of us thought that we had done anything strange or unusual. I still don't and I'm sure that George W. doesn't either[George Campbell has passed away]. I am a 6th generation Floridian and grew up with "wild boys" and I guess became one without realizing it. TC

"just simply "that women shouldnt be allowed" as I could see happening."

Actually, that's not true. There are quite a few women hot keepers, and more than a handful in Florida, that are some of the best handlers and keepers. I have never heard of a woman talked down upon by the men for keeping venomous.

"You know I have seen others free handle venomous snakes on TV - but we are not making posts about them and what they do - nope!"

You must be relatively new to this forum. Stevens, Irwin and pretty much every other TV personality have been grilled about certain handling techniques. Go through the archives, it comes up as much as the venomoid/most venomous snake/best first hot topic.

"Accidents do happen. That is a fact of life."

Yes accidents do happen, freehandling a snake and getting bit is not one of them. Especially when it's happened a handful of times.

"As we are all aware - the simple fact is that by simply having a venomous snake we are all taking a RISK- one which we never or rarely speak of."

Yes there are some inherent risks to keeping venomous, but risks
that can be minimized by safe and proper handling.

"It is our American right to make that choice."

Really? Then why is it that states are continuously dropping like flies in regards to keeping exotics?
Keeping exotics is not a right, it's a priviledge. A priviledge that is being taken away because certain jokers are giving the AR activists and legislators more ammo to do so. The same jokers that free-handle and get bit, sell endangered species, and keep venomous when they don't have the necessary ability to do so.

What I find sad is that certain people are able to keep their snakes after numerous bites because of who they are, yet there are people in Florida that have had their snakes and license taken away from them because they were bitten a few times during a legitimate accident.

Give me an example where a snakebite in captivity, is an legitimate accident.

Randal

TOUCHE!!!!

It’s never an accident from the snakes point of view....
I would say every accident is a legitimate one. Accidents do happen, or we wouldn’t be posting about it. You can’t use that as some benchmark for competency, in my opinion. You are talking about dealing with a living thinking animal. If it wants to nail you, you’re nailed. Unless you practice averting or avoidance. Cowboys that get kicked in the head by a horse aren’t suddenly incompetent horsemen. They might be the butte of some jokes around the watering trough for a while, but really it could happen to the best of them. Dog handlers get bit, hunters shoot each other, beekeepers get stung, race car drivers wreck cars, why are we putting each other down based on a fraction of a second thing? You have to be aware of it at all times, just like everything else with risk, but why the perception that the whole hobby must cease or is at risk because of it? I don’t hear that kind of reaction with those other activities. If I did, I’d think it was equally silly. I don’t mean to start a whole thing with this, just basically posting out of boredom, you know?

I disagree.
There are tools called hooks, tongs, etc. You should NEVER have to touch or get close enough to a venomous reptile for it to "nail" you, as you say.
There are shift cages, etc. along with tools, so that being said, snakebite in captivity can be avoided 100%.
Don't even argue with me because you will not win.

Randal

" You should NEVER have to touch or get close enough to a venomous reptile for it to "nail" you, as you say.

"snakebite in captivity can be avoided 100%."

What about Milking or preping for a vet procedures??

HIGH AND MIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!! lol

Ever had to force-feed an animal? What about medicate one? You should consider yourself lucky to never have to be in a position where an accident could happen. I have no urge to be bitten in any sense of the word, but on many occasions over the years, being less than 1" away from fangs has been a must. I have all the proper tools and even a few that I created that simplified things while making them safer, but sometimes, you just have to get in there and hope for the best. I've not been bitten but easily could have.

Argue with that. If you are going to say "Well, I let my vet take care of my sick animals" then I'm going to shoot you down with this: In some areas, a vet is hundreds of miles away and either YOU help the sick snake or it dies.

Anyone who'd let it die isn't fit to keep one in the first place.

Nothing is 100%. I can choose to never get on an airplane and there is still a chance one will land on my head someday. You would have to limit yourself to preserved museum specimens to be close to your 100%, if that is what you are fantasizing about. That is not the same as saying never bitten or shouldn’t be bitten. I would argue with you and I would win. But I’m not as bored as I was before...

Based on actual data from the National Center for Health Statistics and U.S. Census Bureau, 166,857 deaths were analyzed for year 2003 and two people died from contact with a venomous lizard or snake (I would presume a snake). This was the lowest number of any listed cause that wasn’t zero.
The number of people dying from ignition or melting of nightwear (most people wear nightwear) was three. Contact with hot water killed 26 people. Accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed killed 497 people. Intentional self-harm by firearm killed 16,907 people, falls killed 17,229, and of course the ever popular death by automobile accident
killed 44,757 poor folks. It’s quite a list with lots of reasons people got themselves killed over the year, but venomous snake was, again, the least likely thing of all to cause a death.
It would seem that any organization involved in the effort to lessen the danger from venomous reptiles is either already wildly successful, or completely wasting their time.
Would you agree?

What I have learned from all this is:
(1) don't wear anything while sleeping
(2) don't freehandle skunk apes
(3) more chicks should keep venomous snakes

I think a lot of people incorrectly assumed(myself included) that the bite in question occured because of freehandling, It turns out that this was not the case. I was enlightened as to the details of the bite and it sounds like the typical bite that could happen or has happened to all of us posting on here.

I still think freehandling sends a bad message and even if you say "Don't try this at home" a lot people will emulate behavior they see that looks easy and that they feel will make them look cool, it doesn't matter if its steve irwin, david weathers or anyone else.

Everyone should try to remember something else while the arguments over semantics/opinions/minor details are flying out of control-we all probably agree on a lot more stuff than we disagree on.
Ryan

you've got mail

Love those Elvis sightings!
Lets all agree to freehandle chicks, and be as responsible and careful as possible with venomous snakes. Besides, it’s free!

"Give me an example where a snakebite in captivity, is an legitimate accident."
This sentence has errors in punctuation, spelling, grammar, and logic. Do not try to argue with me, you will not win.

Really? Then why is it that states are continuously dropping like flies in regards to keeping exotics? TJP

Simple, because the AR activists are working a hundred times harder to take away the privileges of private keepers then the private keepers are to maintain them. These groups are out there
looking for political allies and raising funds.They organize rally's and get tremendous verbal and financial support from their members. Our privileges are not being taking away because of certain jokers they are being taken away because well organized and funded groups are putting forth the necessary effort and cash to archive their agendas .

If you absolutely have to point the finger at someone then it's the people who don't know how to put a lid on a cage that really generate the bad press and provide the ammo, not the occasional mishap that befalls someone working with animals as a profession.The biggest worry the average person has about snakes isn't if the owner gets hurt but " what if one of those things get out ! ". A snake bite story for the average person is pretty much something to talk about for five minutes.When something turns up loose that's when it escalates into a " we have to do something about this situation !!! " .

It was noted in the articles involving Dave's bite that he is a professional animal handler that works in TV and movies. There's no difference in the way that story reflects on private keepers or any other story involving a professional handler getting bit. Naturally their will always be those who's personal bias will skew their opinion.

Legitimate accidents are one in a thousand . No one is responsibly bitten. Almost every captive bite is the direct result of the keeper being careless. For someone who makes a living performing stunts taking chances is how they earn a pay check .When someone is in it just for fun there's no reason to. Who's the joker the professional handler who gets paid to take risk and is injured during the course of their career or the " responsible " keeper who's doing it as hobby and ends up in the hospital ? All issues should be kept with in their proper context. Trying to make comparisons between the various segments of the animal trade while pointing fingers and name calling is ridiculous.

Ernie Eison

Yes accidents do happen, freehandling a snake and getting bit is not one of them. Especially when it's happened a handful of times.

Get your facts straight or learn how to read, I explained my incident but you still choose to make accusations against me. I don't, have never, and probably will never get bit free handling. Your statement about me getting bit a handful of times free handling is a pretty BOLD judgement when you know nothing of me and apparently my background, bite history, etc. You seem to believe everything you see on TV or read in the paper. What's next ...are you going to try and convince the people on this thread about the "Skunk Apes"

I am assuming you must be perfect by the way you come on here doing nothing but criticize me. You agree with everyones points but still feel a need to make sure you point out falsely your judgements on me.

I guess you should write a "How to Handle Snakes My Way" book and we can all start to change our ways for you.

As rediculous as my statements sound they fall in line with yours. Think about that when you read this.
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David Weathers
D-Dubs

The previous message was directed to TJP
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David Weathers
D-Dubs

Qoute from TJP: Actually, that's not true. There are quite a few women hot keepers, and more than a handful in Florida, that are some of the best handlers and keepers. I have never heard of a woman talked down upon by the men for keeping venomous.

Do you live in Florida? I am wondering where you get your information? According to my original Wildlife Investigator with Game and Fish who inspects my region, there is only a small handful of female VR License holders. He has checked on this and found it true. Only a small handful...so now the question...how do you know all this? And the rebuttal, you are wrong.

Paul

Anyone remember the guy who got nailed in the head by the mamba awhile back? Nobody was flaming him on his handling technique, anyone care to explain the difference.
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Jason

"Do you live in Florida? I am wondering where you get your information? According to my original Wildlife Investigator with Game and Fish who inspects my region, there is only a small handful of female VR License holders. He has checked on this and found it true. Only a small handful...so now the question...how do you know all this? And the rebuttal, you are wrong."

Actually, I'm not wrong. There are more than a few handfuls of women that are licensed in Florida, regardless of who you talked to in Fish and Game. Reason I know this, I know every one of them.

The guy who was bitten by that black mamba was flamed hard, you just didn't see it. Even though it was mildly covered up....by one of FL's licensed female keepers, he still took a grilling.

Where did the guy who got bit by the mamba get a grilling???? It sure wasnt here. The elite club here called it a miscalculation...
I suspect the reason this guy is getting flamed is because he isn't a member of the elite hot keepers club.
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Jason

Keep lookin'.

from my understanding, it wasn't even the bite victim who was handling it.

The story as I remember it was that the victim was training, and was doing cage maintanance. A VRL certified keeper removed the mamba from the cage and said something, which the victim misheard as the cue to enter the room and do his thing. Unfortunately, the VRL guy didn't say "it's okay to come in", but something else, and the guy entered the room while it was unsafe to do so, and ended up being struck in the head by the mamba, which was being handled on a hook by the VRL guy. The person who owned the snake and facility is well respected, and I don't think it was a coverup on her part. There was definitely some error in judgement, but certainly not a handling error per se. More of a communication error.

The animal was being handled while the incident occurred, it is a "handling" accident. Even though the subject was not handling the animal in this case, somebody was. The miscommunication was between the two humans involved, unless the snake whisperer was present.

Jeff, was there another bite within the last year or two? I'd rather not mention names, but that scenerio sounds different than the other.
BTW, you going in December?

Shoot me an e-mail. I miss you, Peta. He

I'm not debating the fact that a mistake occurred...obviously that was the case. ALL captive bites involve human error of some sort, please don't insult me by thinking I'm oblivious to that.

Qoute from TJP - Actually, I'm not wrong. There are more than a few handfuls of women that are licensed in Florida, regardless of who you talked to in Fish and Game. Reason I know this, I know every one of them.

I am a female VR holder - you dont know me - so therefore you are WRONG - you dont know everyone of them!

Beth

Qoute from TJP - Yes there are some inherent risks to keeping venomous, but risks that can be minimized by safe and proper handling.

TJP how would you know as you dont keep venomous snakes?

Beth

Just a common sense assumption.

It is clear to me that Tom (TJP) is just playing "devil's advocate" here. He clearly does not really know all the details and facts about what he is talking about (as already evidenced in previous posts), so you all should not take Tom's posts serious and get inflamed by him and his comments. Some people like to stir $#!* just to make it stink more.

Does anyone here REALLY believe that our neighbors (or society in general) REALLY care when we get bit by a venomous snake for whatever reason??? The only bad reaction I have ever seen from a press story about someone getting bit has been from people in the herp community, and NOT John Q Citizen. You want to piss of the public and jeopardize our hobby? Let the media do a story on some idiot whose snake escaped its 'FISH TANK WITH "LOCKING LID"' and is loose in the community. THAT is the type of media coverage that will spark legislation to end our hobby. Nobody cares that Dave Weathers, Ray Hunter, Bill Haast or anyone else got bit AGAIN by one of their snakes. (For the record I am adamantly against bites being publicized by the media)

That's my two cents (go ahead and blast away, fellow herpers)
Ray Hunter, Sc.D.

p.s.- Dave, sorry to hear about your accident. Glad you are ok. Be carefull! Ray

I think “playing devil’s advocate” is what the TOS calls “trolling”. Sometimes mildly entertaining, but probably should be discouraged.

I agree the general public could care less. The news folks are desperate to fill the time between advertisement spots with anything that will hold eyeballs until the next advertisement spots. The news guys could care less either, but it’s good for sixty seconds, that’s really all it is about. Keepers getting bit should be about as interesting as a fisherman getting stuck with a hook. Blame the media for sensationalizing it into a “stay tuned” event. I think after all the Animal Planet shows, it isn’t quite as exotic as it use to be.
When a snake escapes as you describe, that is going to be bad news for us. I would hope there would be an investigation, confirmation that the snake is being housed in a cage that meets the requirements, all the rules are being followed, and maybe even revoke the permit if there are violations. In Florida, all these things are spelled out in our rules, including periodic inspections of your facility or caging. People are so paranoid about not being able to continue keeping venomous, they should also be prepared in their maintenance to be inspected and pass those inspections every single day with the same energy level.

Upscale, you are correct. I have been the subject of both positive and negative media stories, and in all cases the reporters or editors use poetic license to sensationalize the story. They inevitably get more than one important fact screwed up, no matter how much you emphasize the accurate version to them. This is why I don't pay much attention to the news version of herp related stories. They KNOW that the general public hates snakes, and they like to feed that fire. Unfortunately the press seems to only inflame our fellow herpers against each other. I am not aware of any other hobby or group that is so willing to sink their fangs into each other as the herping community. This should not be.I don't see car collectors, gun collectors, etc. trashing each other in the mannor so popular in the herp community. Back when I USED to handle venomous in my trademark careless mannor, I was told a few times (oddly enough - never in person, just from cyber-critics) that I was going to cause some kid to copy me and would be responsible for his/her death. Well to date I am not aware of any case of that ever happening. I am, however, aware of cases where kids (and "adults" tried to copy some stupid stunt from TV commercials and ended up seriously injured or dead. Yet I have never seen a forum blasting TV or movie stunts and commercials. Dave does things that even I would not think of doing, but nothing he does or can do can in any way make me look bad, short of letting one of his charges escape and possibly hurt someone. Only the things I do can make me look bad.

(WOW! What the heck was my point? I even put myself to sleep with this sermon.)

Ray Hunter, Sc.D.

I could not have said it any better. It is nice to see someone willing to turn this ugliness around. Lets focus on positive things we can learn from each others mistakes and move on.