Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some photos of what we are calling "Glacier" Leopard Tortoises. The pattern is just barely visible in these guys. It appears that there is very little or no melanin in them. Has anyone ever seen anything like these? Let me know what you think.

Take Care,
Jeff

A couple more photos

I've never seen anything like it before, but i'll have to say its pretty sharp. One of the better ones i've ever seen.

Andy

Andy,
Thanks for the kind words. We aren't quite sure what these guys are genetically. We don't believe they are albinos as they don't really have red eyes. Also, they don't appear to be leucistic as there is a visible pattern, albeit very light in color. The adults that are producing these had normal patterns and pigment when they were obtained as juveniles approximately 17 years ago, but their patterns have since faded to what they are today, an overall ivory color, similar to the "Ivory" Sulcatas. The subadults, juveniles, and hatchlings however hatched as you can see with just a very light hint of pattern and their siblings appear to be normal, perhaps carriers of this trait. We are actually thinking that their may be two things going on with this group, the adults may have some gene that causes a "vanishing" pattern, as seen in some snakes like Honduran Milks and then there is the "glacier" effect as seen in young that have hatched out without the dark pattern typical in Leopards. Any and all comments and opinions are appreciated.

Take care,
Jeff

>>Andy,
>>Thanks for the kind words. We aren't quite sure what these guys are genetically. We don't believe they are albinos as they don't really have red eyes. Also, they don't appear to be leucistic as there is a visible pattern, albeit very light in color. The adults that are producing these had normal patterns and pigment when they were obtained as juveniles approximately 17 years ago, but their patterns have since faded to what they are today, an overall ivory color, similar to the "Ivory" Sulcatas. The subadults, juveniles, and hatchlings however hatched as you can see with just a very light hint of pattern and their siblings appear to be normal, perhaps carriers of this trait. We are actually thinking that their may be two things going on with this group, the adults may have some gene that causes a "vanishing" pattern, as seen in some snakes like Honduran Milks and then there is the "glacier" effect as seen in young that have hatched out without the dark pattern typical in Leopards. Any and all comments and opinions are appreciated.
>>
>>Take care,
>>Jeff

Reduced melanin would suggest that the tortoise is hypomelanistic (i.e. reduced but not completely missing). This is a very common genetic trait with corn snakes.
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PHWyvern

Thank you for your input. Not sure if hypo is what they are either. Although the pattern is somewhat visible, it is more Transparent/translucent. The melanin only really seems present in the eyes. It seems as if the melanin was just removed from where it normally would be, which would mean they are Amelanistic, but they don't appear to have red eyes. If it weren't for the visible pattern, I would say leucistic, but my uderstanding of that trait, is that pattern is lacking as well.

Take care,
Jeff

>>Thank you for your input. Not sure if hypo is what they are either. Although the pattern is somewhat visible, it is more Transparent/translucent. The melanin only really seems present in the eyes. It seems as if the melanin was just removed from where it normally would be, which would mean they are Amelanistic, but they don't appear to have red eyes. If it weren't for the visible pattern, I would say leucistic, but my uderstanding of that trait, is that pattern is lacking as well.
>>
>>Take care,
>>Jeff

No red eyes automatically rules out amelanistic. To be leucistic, generally the animal has to be white in color with blue or black eyes...the tortoise didn't look white.

So right now it seems to point to the tortoise simply being hypomelanistic. They key thing here is that all hypos have a reduced amount melanin to some degree, but never fully missing all of it. For some animals they might lose half of the melanin, for others they might lose all but a trace.
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PHWyvern

Just because the eyes aren't red, doesn't mean that it is NOT an Albino. Thier are many different types of amelanism, many are not understood all that well and these Leopards may be one type. Also, take a flashlight and shine it in the iris; Many Tyrosinase positive ( or what we believe to be T positive ) albinos have red iris's, but since other dark melanins are still present they look like a normal pigmented eye.

Thank you for your input. After discussion with several people we do believe that this morph may be t albino. Futher breeding efforts are underway to answer some questions that we have.

Take care,
Jeff

That should read t albino.

hmm, the plus sign does not show up. Interesting. Should read t positive albino then.

Do they have red iris's?

I have a few questions for you about your Glacier torts..

1. Do they live indoors or outdoors?
2. Do you give them lots of UVB?

The reason I ask is that I have read about "Ivory" Sulcatas (Leopard Tort’s closest relative) that become err normal colored Sulcata when placed in outdoor pens.

But your ones appear to be hypomelanistic – this just means less melanin is produced – They do not always need to have red eyes – There are many genetic interaction.

Good luck in your breeding program. I am going to stick with my Yellow Foots (That are very yellow – have a look at their locomotion in my post below)

Thank you for your comments. Here are answers to your questions.

1. Do they live indoors or outdoors? These tortoises are raised outdoors when weather/seasons permit, and indoors when they do not.

2. Do you give them lots of UVB? Yes.

Take care,
Jeff

I am not sure where you heard that the "Ivory Tortoise" (dark eyed albino African spurred tortoise) becomes normal when put in the sun. That is not the case. They can be put in the sun, without damage to their eyes, like a normal sulcata but they definitely do not become normal looking when exposed to the sun.

Richard

It is very common for leopard tortoise to “bleach out” in the sun particularly those from the northern parts of their range. I have many older leopard tortoises (parents originated out of Kenya) that are almost absent of any markings. There are reports of leopard tortoises being confused with African spurred tortoises because their color and size was nearly identical. I have included a picture of a young leopard and its mother. When the mother was younger she looked much like the youngster.

South African leopard tortoises are generally darker and the more northern populations are usually lighter but there are populations that regularly break this rule. There are some leopards that are genetically lighter and this is seen in them as hatchlings. Leopards that develop light colors as they grow are often diet induced (see bottom picture). Incubation temperature can also affect the color or markings of hatchings (see the strange markings of the small leopard in the second picture).

Buyers of Leopard tortoise need to realize that babies will not necessarily grow up to look like the parents unless the husbandry is identical to the parents. Buying specific colored leopards to perpetuate that color through captive breeding may not be successful unless the color was actually genetic.

Leopard tortoises are extremely variable. Very often their color is the result of their environment or husbandry. Leopard tortoises from specific locations may be genetically predisposed for specific characteristics but many of the color morphs we see in the market are not genetic.

There are also many incorrect ideas about leopard tortoises. Most authorities no longer recognize the two subspecies. Many people incorrectly believe that the largest leopard tortoises are G. pardalis pardalis (assuming the subspecies are valid). The largest leopard tortoises are actually G. pardalis babcocki from Somalia and Ethiopia (grow to well over two feet). Since, to my knowledge, there are no Somalian or Ethiopian leopard tortoises in the USA then G. pardalis pardalis would be the largest leopard tortoise available in the US. Even still there are some very large G. pardalis babcocki in the US. I have some that are nearly 20-inches.

All in all the lightest youngter pictured with the other two looks like the result of genetics. Good luck!

Richard

Hi Richard,
I have never seen a Leopard tortoise - I only have yellow foots (and have only seen yellow foots - and from a distance Galapagos and Indian Stars)

When I comment on any other Tortoise types - I am commenting on what I have read (Second or third hand information) and what I see with my Yellow Foots.

Thanks for the great Tortoise photos.