Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My 12ft burm doesn't like his F/T rabbit this week. He's eaten live for the past 7 years or so. We do F/T here. When I first got him, he ate a 6lb F/T rabbit outside of his cage. Not wanting to repeat that..um..adventure..I offered him a F/T rabbit in his enclosure. He nosed it and cuddled it for about 15hrs, but didn't eat it. Getting the bunny back out was fun. He acts hungry, it's been 3 weeks, but I can't afford to keep throwing $10 rabbits at him. Well, actually I can, but I don't want to, if you know what I mean. My husband suggested feeding him outside of his cage again. I just gave him *that look* and asked him if he was nuts. We do have a pet store that will pre-kill rabbits for us. Maybe that's the way to go? I was expecting this large-bodied snake that would have a hearty appetite, but I'm not seeing it. His stool is firm, but I haven't had him checked for parasites. I deworm once a year routinely, but haven't done him yet since he's new and we've been fighting mites. (He looks great, by the way, and I see maybe 2 or 3 mites on him.) His previous owner fed him once a month and he's definitely not a big, bulky python. I'd like to figure out a schedule for him since Samson will be traveling to educational shows. I'd like to plan time to digest and I'd rather not haul around a hungry snake.

Hi Laura!
Sounds as if your burm was pretty much starving to death when you first fed it the F/T. It also sounds like he was very interested in, but unsure of, the F/T this last time. Since it's been 3 weeks since he last ate I'm also sure that he is hungry now, as incdicated by his nudging of the last F/T offered.

At this point I would bite the bullet and stick to my guns about getting him switched over, for sure. When I say "bite the bullet," I mean dealing with the possible expense of a few uneaten F/T rabbits.

He's already eaten one F/T and appeared to be interested in another. I would wait a week and try another F/T. It's hard to resist the temptation to try to entice him more by offering fresh-killed by your local pet shop but I'd be afraid that it could prolong the switchover. I've heard of a few snakes getting hung in the fresh-killed stage of switching over. If he wasn't showing any interest at all in the F/T then I'd say go with fresh-killed.

It's not like you've got a perfectly healthy snake that you're preparing for breeding season, or one that has been eating like a champ and you don't want to interupt it's biological clock. That's why I say "stick to your guns."

As long as you keep an eye on his health, making sure it doesn't get dangerously low/poor, you should be able to outwait him within 3 weeks. I'd be surprised if he didn't eat a F/T within that timeframe.

I feel it's important for me to say that my 9ft male outwaited me, dang stubborn rascal. He's the only snake that I haven't been able to get switched over. Won't even LOOK at a F/T OR fresh-killed. Uugggghhhhh!!! However, I feel that your male is showing positive signs and will make the switch fairly soon.

Please keep me informed.

Best wishes!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Are you laying the F/T rabbit on the floor of his enclosure or dangling it in the air with tongs? I've got almost all my snakes (burms, balls, and boas) on F/T but most won't do anything but poke at their food if it's laying on the floor. It's got to smell like food, feel warm like food, and "move" like food. Sometimes I reward picky eaters by yanking on the tail of the f/t rat a few times during constriction. I think it reassures the snake that they're eating something fresh, but my boyfriend thinks I've got "issues". Anyhow it works.

~kasey

I fed him both times on the floor. The reason being that I don't have tongs big enough to hold a rabbit! All of my others (even the balls) will eat F/T on the floor, although sometimes I feed them with tongs, depending on my mood, I guess.

This burm ate the first time on the floor, so I thought it would be no problem the second time. He is hungry if I'm reading him correctly. I did finally weigh him and he's 35 pounds at 12ft. His previous owner fed him only once a month and he had a history of constricting live food and not eating it.

I'm going to try again this weekend, I'll let you know how it goes.

One thing I failed to mention is it might be a good idea to use a slightly smaller rabbit, like a 4-pounder instead of a 6. Smaller sizes can sometimes make a difference. I can't remember what size you said the previous owner was feeding it.

I'm sorry I forgot to mention that earlier, hopefully it's not too late. You can always try it the next time, if needed.

Later!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I might need a smaller rabbit. This one was just under 6. I tried everything everyone suggested. He grabbed it, squeezed a bit, seemed like he was going to eat it, then backed off. He played with it, nosed it, dragged by the hind foot for a while. It's been a month now since he's eaten last. I wouldn't worry so much, but he's not exactly Mr. Hefty to begin with. He drinks, the temps in his enclosure are fine. He seems to be of good temperament, skin looks great.

So, I'm going to have to go to the store, get a small rabbit pre-killed, take it home, freeze it, then defrost it. Sounds crazy enough to work.

Well, that stubborn 'lil rascal!

In your reply to "SnakesByDesign" you said, "His previous owner fed him only once a month and he had a history of constricting live food and not eating it."

So, it appears that his behavior now isn't really anything unusual. I can't help but feel that there's something in his history of constricting food and not eating it.

If the previous owner was feeding him 6-pounders (live) and he wouldn't always eat them after killing them, and he's playing around with 6-pounders (F/T) now, I suspect size could be a factor.

There's also the possibility that he's being territorial, protecting his territory. But, most territorial snakes are fairly hostile, aggressive, in one form or another, and it doesn't sound like he is, so I doubt that's the problem. They also generally only constrict as a last resort.

In your last feeding situation, if you had a set of tongs that you could've used to do what "SnakesByDesign" suggested, gently tugging on the rabbit while it's constricting it, he might've eaten it.

My adult male is a picky eater and has always been right about perfect weight for his size, maybe a tad underweight sometimes. Just before breeding season last year he went of feed for nearly 7 whole months. I was getting worried. Heck, I was a bit worried. He was pretty darn skinny.

I say that to let you know that they can go longer than we think without feeding. HOWEVER, that's YOUR call. YOU have to make that decision as to when enough is enough.

If you're pretty concerned about it's health due to lack of feeding you can always try a smaller live rabbit (if the previous owner was feeding him rabbits). You could continue to do so until you got him to what you consider to be a healthy stage, and then go back to trying to get him switched to F/T.

Otherwize, I'd wait another week & go with a smaller rabbit, probably even freshly killed (maybe, maybe not), and use tongs to simulate life, before he constricts it & just a little bit while he's constricting it.

I just can't help but feel that it's more to do about prey size than it is with movement, F/T, etc... Earlier I said maybe try a 4-pounder but now I'm thinking that a 3-pounder might be even better. If he eats it, great, wait a week and try two 3-pounders. If he eats them then you might consider increasing to 4lbs. And so on.

I'm sorry you're haivng such a rough go of it but you'll get it worked out. I also wish I had the perfect answer, the one that would DEFINITELY work, but I don't.

Keep your chin up & hang in there!

Later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Well, I didn't freeze it first. The poor snake seemed so hungry and was just scoping out his enclosure all morning looking for food. I went to the pet store today and picked out a rabbit for him. They took care of the dirty work for me, so we ended up with a freshly killed instead of F/T. I don't know the size, but I'm guessing maybe 3-4 pounds. It has left a visible lump, but not too big and definitely not as big as the last one! I dangled it, he grabbed. I gave it a nice nudge while he constricted and then when he was satisfied that it was really dead, he chomped on it. He seemed to get it down fairly easy and is happily digesting.

This bunny was also black vs the white ones I had been trying to feed. I don't know if it's a fluke, but I have ball pythons that seem to snub white mice. I don't know if it's smell or color, but they like the brown ones or the b/w white ones so much better. They'll grab a colored mouse immediately but kind of dance around a white one.

Glad to hear it! And kudos to "SnakesByDesign" for mentioning simulating life in the prey.

Sounds like that was about the appropriate size rabbit from the lump you discribed compared to the one before. He'll probably start moving around again within 2 weeks and then I'd try 2 rabbits that same size or maybe just a tad smaller. Probably 1 fresh killed and 1 F/T, feeding the fresh one first.

He's got some catching up to do and I suspect he'll take 2 rabbits 2 weeks from now. You should be able to judge by how woon he starts searching for food again.

I doubt that color had anything to do with it as I've never had or heard of any problems associated with prey color for burms. Some ball pythons prefer darker colored prey due to their being wild caught and their natural prey is mostly gerbils, which aren't white.

One last thing; if you continue to feed fresh killed, find a rabbit breeder to get your rabbits from. $5 versus $20 adds up pretty quick. Go to, or call around, feed stores and ask for rabbit breeders. They can put 'em down for ya, too.

Thanks for keeping us updated!

Have a good one!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American