Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is Black Boa picture!

If you want to see more pics about our Boas, take a look on our website.

Thx
Markus

BlackBoa.de

I believe the US version is refeered to as an IMG Boa ?
Very cool animals,are they pure Colombian ?

TnK

>>Here is Black Boa picture!
>>
>>If you want to see more pics about our Boas, take a look on our website.
>>
>>Thx
>>Markus
>>
>>BlackBoa.de
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TnK

here they are;

IMG(Increased Melinin Gene) Colombian Boa
http://www.exoticsbynature.com/daytona07.html

>>I believe the US version is refeered to as an IMG Boa ?
>>Very cool animals,are they pure Colombian ?
>>
>>TnK
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Here is Black Boa picture!
>>>>
>>>>If you want to see more pics about our Boas, take a look on our website.
>>>>
>>>>Thx
>>>>Markus
>>>>
>>>>BlackBoa.de
>>-----
>>TnK
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TnK

The Black Boa is recessive, and Costa Rican. Much like if not the same as the Leopard Sonoran.

The Melanistic/IMG is Colombian and at least dominant if not co-dominant.

The Black boa is born black.

TnK, just because I like to talk to people more directly with names, what is you name?
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Thx,
our Black Boa is a new color and pattern mutation which descents from pedigreed Costa Rica boas.

With it being SO similar to the Leopard mutation, it's hard to swallow the term "new mutation". If you showed all 19 of your babies, they may all look different. Of course, I've studied the Leopards on Hans table at Daytona and those all looked different as well. All the same mutation, but so variable it makes it hard just to pick which animal to buy. I would lean toward calling them Costa Rican Leopards, as people have labeled the different locale motleys...Argentine, Central American, Nicaruagan, and Colombian....same mutation, different locales! It's a very cool animal, it's just too bad for you that this didn't show up a few years earlier-before Leopards were established. The other kicker is the HUGE price difference. Why buy an animal that looks like a leopard, may be the same thing as a leopard for 5 times as much? Most would breed them to other morphs, so the locale isn't going to carry much worth in terms of asking price in my opinion. There are some that think Leopards have problems though, so if you can prove your animals don't share these problems, you may sell out quickly-at a more reasonable price!

Well said

>>With it being SO similar to the Leopard mutation, it's hard to swallow the term "new mutation". If you showed all 19 of your babies, they may all look different. Of course, I've studied the Leopards on Hans table at Daytona and those all looked different as well. All the same mutation, but so variable it makes it hard just to pick which animal to buy. I would lean toward calling them Costa Rican Leopards, as people have labeled the different locale motleys...Argentine, Central American, Nicaruagan, and Colombian....same mutation, different locales! It's a very cool animal, it's just too bad for you that this didn't show up a few years earlier-before Leopards were established. The other kicker is the HUGE price difference. Why buy an animal that looks like a leopard, may be the same thing as a leopard for 5 times as much? Most would breed them to other morphs, so the locale isn't going to carry much worth in terms of asking price in my opinion. There are some that think Leopards have problems though, so if you can prove your animals don't share these problems, you may sell out quickly-at a more reasonable price!
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TnK

They look a lot like a dark leopard boa. Are they part of that line? I have a male leopard who is very dark and has that same rich salmon color on his chin, but he has more of the traditional leopard patterning on his sides.
Beautiful snake!
Foxloft Studios Artwork and Exotics

it looks like a dark leopard. i saw your older pics in the market section and it looked even more leopard. even the hets looked like leopard hets to me.

some pics in more light or natural sunlight might clear things up.

back when these were first proven genetic. They very well "might" be the same mutation as Leopards. However, and this is key, they are pure Costa Rican. Related, to the Liberian, CR locale that some have here in the US. All stemming from the same Serpentarium in origin in CR. The difference is only that they entered the German captive population long before the US and have been bred there on numerous occaisons. To date this is the only occurrence of the bloodline producing the morph.

I will be breeding a pair of related boas this season, which came from an '04 shipment from CR. I know of at least one other breeder here that will be doing the same. So there is a slight chance this could pop up.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Very interesting! I wonder if its like the motley gene, where it's the same thing just different subspecies. I would be curious if they are compatible, the leopard and blacks.
Very pretty snakes!
Foxloft Studios Art and Exotics

There is also the discussion that Hans is not "sure" his animals were Sonoran, they very well may have been Costa Ricans as well??? He is also dealing with German animals. One other breeder also produced leopards around the same time period, otherwise known as Mephisto Boas, also in Germany. The hets look the same, and the "blacks" look the same...Leopards are extremely variable, so saying this animal doesn't look exactly like that animal is almost a null arguement. Very similar, and despite the locale being known, I can't see the huge price difference. Of course I think it's cool looking, that's why I have Leopards to begin with.

I believe there were 3 total "Sonoran Leopard" lines produced in Germany around the same time, different breeders. It is the Winner line that grew to such large numbers and spread to the US. I haven't heard much about what happened to the others, or if compatibility tests were done with the others.

I believe Vin Russo commented on the Sonoran debate around the Winner Leopards. If anyone has info on this I'd love to go through it.

There has also been debate on the locale of these boas as well.

Paul, what info do you have about the Mephisto name? I had heard that was what the were originally called, but it changed to Leopard because of the Latin-English translation of Mephisto. That's all I know about it.

Leopards are extremely variable, possibly the most variable of all recessive boa morphs. Makes for endless projects.

I will add one comment, I don't think Han's Leopards are Costa Rican, why, because of adult size. My Liberian locale CRs are fairly big for CA boas. The female is over 6ft, and the male is over 5 ft. Though the male is the leanest adult boa I own. Meanwhile my 66% het Leopard female (produced by Hans) is under 5ft. and my Leopard (produced by Hans) is slightly over 3 ft. All 4 boas are adults. So I do think the locales are different. Wherever they come from. It is still very possible that the mutations are the same.

I will also say that if I do get a Black boa from my CR boas I will breed it with the Winner line to test compatibility.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

You can either look for this info, or I'll try to find it, but for some reason I thought a woman produced the Mephistos seperately from Hans. That's the first I heard about it being from translation. Oh well, something to look into I guess. My adult leopards fall within your size range also.

One of the other "Leopard" lines was def produced by a woman.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Okay, so I haven't totally lost my mind....this is who I am thinking coined them Mephisto. Let me know what you find out. Doing a quick google search for Mephisto turned up notta, and a german-english translation didn't seem to produce anything yet either.

This is where I first saw the name: http://www.classreptilia.com/boa_morphs.htm

Ron Michelotti's morph page.

The name Mephisto translates from Latin to English as Devil. It is not a German word. That's all I have!
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Nice discussion...

I never heard something about Mephistos before this thread.

It is sure in case that we breed the Black Boa not from Leopard Boas. From the pattern there are similarities of both lines. However I dont know whether the two lines am compatible and I have no Leopard to check it out this time. I think the Hets looks different, maybe this comes from the differnt locations.

Thx at all for this discussion.
Markus

I think, and others correct me if I am wrong, that people are saying that your hets have similar patterns as het Leopards.

However, the color of the boa is very different, and ignoring pattern looks like many of the CR boas in the US from the same bloodlines.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

I think the only way to find out whether the lines are compatible, is to breed a black with en leopard. Maybe I buy me en leopard next year for this test.

Thx for the discussion.

Markus

>>I believe there were 3 total "Sonoran Leopard" lines produced in Germany around the same time, different breeders. It is the Winner line that grew to such large numbers and spread to the US. I haven't heard much about what happened to the others, or if compatibility tests were done with the others.
>>
>>I believe Vin Russo commented on the Sonoran debate around the Winner Leopards. If anyone has info on this I'd love to go through it.
>>
>>There has also been debate on the locale of these boas as well.
>>
>>Paul, what info do you have about the Mephisto name? I had heard that was what the were originally called, but it changed to Leopard because of the Latin-English translation of Mephisto. That's all I know about it.
>>
>>Leopards are extremely variable, possibly the most variable of all recessive boa morphs. Makes for endless projects.
>>
>>I will add one comment, I don't think Han's Leopards are Costa Rican, why, because of adult size. My Liberian locale CRs are fairly big for CA boas. The female is over 6ft, and the male is over 5 ft. Though the male is the leanest adult boa I own. Meanwhile my 66% het Leopard female (produced by Hans) is under 5ft. and my Leopard (produced by Hans) is slightly over 3 ft. All 4 boas are adults. So I do think the locales are different. Wherever they come from. It is still very possible that the mutations are the same.
>>
>>I will also say that if I do get a Black boa from my CR boas I will breed it with the Winner line to test compatibility.
>>-----
>>http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
>>http://www.BoaList.com/

Chris, if you or someone else breeds the black and the leopard together and the compatibility proves out, what should they be really called? We produced 5 leopards(hans line) this past season and I have a female that looks like an identical twin to the black boa pictured....just a thought.
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Strictly Serpents
Monty Montalbo/Niels Berg
619-602-4908

Good Q.

Well, technically they would then be the same morph, so I guess Leopard??? Though having a distinction would help emphasize to people in the future what origins their boa has. Be it Sonoran, Costa Rican, or a cross.

Considering the odds of anyone in the US getting a Black boa from CR boas here are infintesimaly small, let's not worry about it, lol.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Maybe black leopards? That sounds nice. I have a really dark adult male leopard that looks just like those black boa adults as well. Incredibly dark with just some white speckling on his sides and the deep salmon color on the chin.
I love the light colored leopards as well, the light colored pattern and contrast is amazing. I would be pretty surprised if the black boas aren't compatible or at least along the same lines as the leopard gene.
Foxloft Studios Art and Exotics

As far as I recall these were from a Danish guy Jimmy Kjaer at the time.
His Sonorans were very light grey animals oposite to the bold saddles like you see on the "traditional" Hans Winner line.
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Eric Tersteeg
http://www.boaconstrictor.nl

I completely agree with Ed. The first thing that I thought when I saw the ads in the classifieds was that they looked just like leopards and het leopards.

I think your Black Boas are beautiful. I was checking out the rest of them at your web site.

Definately made me say, "WOW!!!!!!!!"

Congratulations on such amazing boas.

n/p
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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
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