Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is the most humane way to euthanize a snake?

spider
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Spider

same way as a vet would put any other animal to sleep.
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You all talk Balls,I talk Royals ;0)
www.alpharoyals.co.uk

Because reptiles are cold blooded it takes a lot more injections to put them down. Circulation and respiration are much slower accounting for this issue.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

1.0 albino
1.2 het albino
1.0 het caramel
1.0 het pied
0.1 poss het. pied
0.4 normals (beautiful pastel sibs)

Dr. Alan is a DVM on the AHR forums had a thread going about this after someone asked. The veterinary community stands by freezing as a cruel and inhumane form of euthanasia -- and as vets, you think they would know better than anyone how a snake's body structure and brain would react to freezing. If it were painless and just "going to sleep", wouldn't they be supporting it instead of condeming it? That is not the case though. They stand by injection of phenobarbitol being the #1 most humane method (the same way you put a pet cat or dog down).

He also disagreed with the CO2 chamber being as simple as going to sleep too...however no studies have been done on it so he couldn't give a definitive answer as to whether animals feel distress from the lack of oxygen or not.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Mornin' Jen I still have a problem with the Veterinary Communities opinion of this, but it's senseless to argue the point. Seems thers's been enough of that in here already.

I do, however, agree with the phenobarb shot. Wanted to go that route earlier but was afraid it would just bring up arguements about the difference in reaction to chemicals of mammals and reptiles. This string had already had enough.

It's simple easy and painless.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Freezing is not they way to go........................for any animal!!!

Thanks for the info Jen.

Jared
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Have a vet experienced with reptiles put him down for you. Most normal methods of humane euthanasia for mammals don't work as effectively with reptiles.

Stuffing them into the freezer is not humane, even with cold blooded animals.

This topic has come up many times in various different reptile forums, and I think the bottom line is, what is your definition of 'humane'?

do a google search on humane euthanasia snakes (or reptiles, or lizards) and you will find a lot of information. I know reptiles Canada had a big discussion of it awhile ago.
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PHLdyPayne

NEVER NEVER NEVER Put anyting into the freezer like some rookies will tell you to do!!!!!! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE FROZEN TO DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

If you want to humanely & Painlessly put an animal down........go to PUBLIX and get a few large pieces of DRY ICE ( Solid Carbon Dioxide ), DO NOT touch this with your bare skin as you will get sever burns from the temperature, -200 degrees.

Take a 10 gal tank or a 5 gallon bucket, place the animal you wish to euthanize inside the container and then in a smaller cup or jar pour warm/hot water in the jar and place that inside the tank/bucket. Place a chunk of dry ice into the jar of hot water and it will begin to start smoking & bubbling like you see on haloween.......DO NOT BREATH IN THIS VAPOR or you will eutanize yourself...........the reaction thats happening is the release of carbon dioxide which starves it's environment of O2 ( Oxygen ). USe a piece of glass or a few layers of Saran wrap to seal the top and leave it sealed for 5-10 minutes.

The release of CO2 will cause the animal to peacefully "fall asleep".

This is by far the most humane way for a private collector to euthanize an animal. THis will also work for putting down rodents for feeding......which is a much more humane way to do it than thumping mice/rats on the ground to kill them.

AGAIN.......2 MAJOR WARNINGS!!!!!!!!

1.) Do not touch the dry ice or you will get sever burns!!!

2.) DO NOT BREATH the vaoprs or you can and will pass out as it will starve your brain of oxygen which can and will lead to death!

Jared Horenstein
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Jared - this could be argued from all sides

If you flood the chamber with CO2 too fast they do not "fall asleep" they choke to death - not a particularly pleasing way to go either - if you don't have the right proportions of dry ice to water to space....

It's also said that freezing will shut down their system and make them "sleep" prior to their death as well.

I'm not sure between which the two worse case scenarios is most humane?
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

A University study showed that this is by far the fastest and most humane way to put an animal to sleep without the use of chemicals. They do NOT choke to death. The inhalation of CO2 causes an immediate shutdown of the brain. They just fall alseep.

They do not CHOKE to death.......and whomever told you that was mileading you Tosha.

And to respond to your statement about putting an animal in the freezer......no matter what kind of animal it is..........they all can and DO feel temperature......including COLD.......they do feel pain and freezing to death is not a pleasant way to die! BE it a reptile, or a mammal..........cold blooded or warm blooded!

Freezing any living creature is inhumane and should NEVER be reccomended to anyone by anyone!

Ask your vert and he will tell you this as well.

Jared
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

The 2002 AVMA Panel on Euthanasia concluded that rapid freezing is not a humane method of euthanasia. If freezing is used, animals should be anesthetized first.

Here is the study and it's findings..........

http://www.avma.org/reference/default.asp#reports

Vet. studies also show that the fastest form of euthenasia is Cervical Dislocation/decapitation, but we are not reccomending this to ANYONE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!

CO2 Euthenasia is the next best way to put an aniaml down humanely
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Actually the Stanford University lab guidelines specifically state NOT to use dry ice because you cannot control the rate at which the CO2 is released into the chamber - anything more than a 20% dispersement can cause pain and distress.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

Jared you posted that and my foot started hurting. Cold is bad for all animals. When I was in Korea in the 90's I was put in the back of a deuce and a half with a fabric top. It was -20 and it was a 5 hour road march. That is the only time i thought I would freeze to death. The wind coming in almost gave us (me and a Korean soldier) frost bite. I was suppose to be drivng a nicely heated M1A1 abrahms tanks. But being as organized as the army is I wound up in the back of the truck. After the road march I was not happy till i could feel my foot thawing from the tanks exhaust. Needless to say I freeze nothing unless it is already dead. Sorry i am running off at the mouth again.
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Thanks and Take Care
Thomas Jones
Thomas@rockinreptiles.com

I totally agree with your way of euthanizing(sp?). However, you can't really euthanize yourself. I have messed around with plenty of dry ice in my day... doing whatever you can do with dry ice. We would inhale it and blow it out and all kind of other things that never hurt us.... so it takes quite a bit of exposure to affect a person. You don't have to worry about it.

But it will freeze/burn your skin if you touch it... no joke

But still I would not reccomend to anyone to inhale Carbon Dioxide..........or any other gas thats not oxygen......for that matter.....
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

I had to put a snake down last summer. I used my CO2 chamber to do it (vinegar and baking soda method). I will NEVER do that again to a reptile! Like one of the earlier posters in this thread stated, cold blooded animals with their slower metabolisms don't react to the methods we use on rodents in the same way. That little snake that I put down suffered tremendously at my hand. In my opinion, the only humane way to do it is take it to an experienced vet. Barring that, use a quick method, which CO2 is NOT when it comes to snakes.

Steve

>>NEVER NEVER NEVER Put anyting into the freezer like some rookies will tell you to do!!!!!! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE FROZEN TO DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
>>

Jared you are entitled to your opinion. It matches that of all veterinarians in the USA and those of many other folks as well.

Mine is different.

Having experienced it, I will point out that frostbite is painless UNTIL it thaws. Speak to anyone that has had a toe or finger frozen, they will tell you the pain starts when thawing. As the thawing takes place after the animal is dead no further worry is needed.

Any frostbite victims to chime in?

We utilize a local vet for euthanasia as the animals are donated to veterinary teaching.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

Hmmmm, having fallen through the ice and lived with the cold of Michigan, I can tell you there is lots of pain associated with freezing. Yes, thawing is painful, but leading up to that is not fun either.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

>>Hmmmm, having fallen through the ice and lived with the cold of Michigan, I can tell you there is lots of pain associated with freezing. Yes, thawing is painful, but leading up to that is not fun either.

Did you actually ever get frostbite?

Or just the mammalian pain response to cooling? These are very different. Ever notice fishing around for a beer in the ice chest that your hand is numb by the time you find the right one? Or perhaps iced an ankle injury until numb? A reptile does not feel that part.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

>>A reptile does not feel that part.

Interesting. I did not know that.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

>>>>A reptile does not feel that part.
>>
>>Interesting. I did not know that.

It is a mammal's body saying "you are getting dangerously cold and will be numb and unfunctional soon".

When a vet or a collection of vets (re: AVMA) produce an OPINION such as this they are anthropomorphising without providing data. When called on the carpet about it they get angry and spout their credentials for credibility. But NO data!
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

There's no denying thawing is excrutiating, But there is also no denial in the fact that leading up to it feels aweful too. the numbing we feel as mammals typically isn't pleasant either. Additional to us being mammals, we are not reptiles, so how are we to know that it isn't painless??

And I'll say it again, I posted it lower down the thread: It may be true that it's humane. But they just have so many nerve endings, they have an accute sense of touch, and temperature is ever so important to them even if it swings only a few decgrees... I find it hard to believe that it could be painless. Freezing sounds so thoughtless... you just don't know what they feel.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

>>There's no denying thawing is excrutiating, But there is also no denial in the fact that leading up to it feels aweful too.

What basis in fact do you have to make this statement? Leave emotion and opinion out. What science is there to back this statement up?

I am happy to review scientific papers reporting controlled studies of this phenomena.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

I'm not backing anything up by science. I admitted in the same post you are referring to that, "It may be true that it's humane," to make it clear that I really don't know.

However, you don't need scientific evidence to prove that when you feel intensely cold, it IS uncomfortable.

Yes, they are reptiles, they may be different, but again, WE are NOT reptiles, and we don't know the pain or discomfort they feel.

I agree with Ginebag below that if you MUST freeze and you truely feel it is humane, when professional vets and countless other people disagree, put them in the refridgerator first.

I did notice that you said, "We utilize a local vet for euthanasia as the animals are donated to veterinary teaching." I wanted to compliment that. Its quite commendable.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Oh, I wanted to add that please don't take my response to be disrespectful or personal. This thread has become quite controversial it seems, lol.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Think about it you are not cold blooded.Reptiles are, big difference !!!!

OK, on the subject of freezing. It seems most here were talking about FAST freezing for whatever reason. I was talking about dropping temps enough to cause them to go to sleep, which will be painless. After that it's simply a matter of putting it in a freezer to finish the job. The continued freezing will not wake it to any pain. It will just freeze.

As for frostbite, I agree with Jay. I've lived in Michigan all my life and have problems with frostbitten appendages to this day form being foolish as a youngster. Toes, fingers and a nose tip. There was pain in the freezing process, but not nearly as severe as the pain of thawing.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

why do you ask? By the way, Jarred is correct and don't breath it in!
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I eat human infants. They, like everything else, taste like chicken. What?

Let me be more specific.... What is the most humane way I can put a snake down at home?
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Spider

Thank you all for your input. Seems like there's no clear answer to this problem. I agree that the vet is the best way to go, but the nearest reptile vet is 3 hours from here.

Thanks again.
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Spider

Car Tire comes to mind.. Joking!! If it needs to be euthanised, I say the best way is what ever is Fastest!
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

I saw the guy from Man Vs. Wild take a python by the tail and smash its head on a stone. I know it works well with rodents.

No offense ment to anyone who's participated in this string. It's definately hit on some raw nerves. If it's a snake and it HAS TO DIE, why be concerned with humane? Any way it's done will be the end of it's life. No matter how cruel some ways to end a life quickly are, if it ends it quickly what does it really matter.

This may well cause a stir in here, but I'm from the "old school" of thought in this. I have had to put down dogs and cats in my life. A .22 bullet in the head IS effective AND inexpensive. I put down my first ever ball python almost 18 years ago because when I got him he was severely infected with mouth rot and tyhe dealer would not take it back or refund my money. In a matter of a month and a half it's body was riddled with open ulcerated sores. Several rounds of antibiotics failed and I got tired of watching it suffer. I cut his head off and buried him. Quick, efficient, no more pain. I'm sure he was beyond caring at that point. Sorry for the rant. If it's suffering, put it out of it's misery.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Quig is right on the money with this. If you can stomach it just grab your garden hatchet or whatever and one swing is quicker than anything I can think of!

I agree. death is jsut that, death. everyone and everything faces it. some sooner than others, and some in ways that are horrible and some in ways that are peaceful. no matter what, we really don't control the manner, time, or preference in the way we die. I have two fears of types of death and that is burning or sufficating in any manner, but that may be the way I die. I will face it when it comes my time becuase I won't be able to do anything about it.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

1.0 albino
1.2 het albino
1.0 het caramel
1.0 het pied
0.1 poss het. pied
0.4 normals (beautiful pastel sibs)

I have to say you hit it right on Quig. Any way you take a life it is still hard and I am sure you can mess up even the best way, making it a horrible death.
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Brian n Chrissy

www.cb-reptiles.com/
"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

Quig Im glad someone else had the balls (pun intended) to say it first but I spent summers as a kid on a farm and you know what if you wanted to eat you got very aquainted with death. Another thing is you had to feed and water those animals the same as you do your reptiles the fastest way is not always the most humane
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

It's funny that the "raw" stuff is discussed in the ball python forum and not the retic forum. There's no need to keep the body intact unless you need it intact. Like why not the firecracker and mouse technique?

>>Quig Im glad someone else had the balls (pun intended) to say it first but I spent summers as a kid on a farm and you know what if you wanted to eat you got very aquainted with death. Another thing is you had to feed and water those animals the same as you do your reptiles the fastest way is not always the most humane
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>>Damian Macioce
>>www.strongholdreptiles.com

Same here...When i was a kid,cheeseburgers used to go moo before we ate em!

I remember watching as it was led up to a hillside,"blindfolded",struck in the head with a huge sledge(drops instantly!).At which point it is immediately raised by it's hindquarters,and jugulars severed. haha moo!
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Charles Glaspie

>>No offense ment to anyone who's participated in this string. It's definately hit on some raw nerves. If it's a snake and it HAS TO DIE, why be concerned with humane? Any way it's done will be the end of it's life. No matter how cruel some ways to end a life quickly are, if it ends it quickly what does it really matter.
>>
>>This may well cause a stir in here, but I'm from the "old school" of thought in this. I have had to put down dogs and cats in my life. A .22 bullet in the head IS effective AND inexpensive. I put down my first ever ball python almost 18 years ago because when I got him he was severely infected with mouth rot and tyhe dealer would not take it back or refund my money. In a matter of a month and a half it's body was riddled with open ulcerated sores. Several rounds of antibiotics failed and I got tired of watching it suffer. I cut his head off and buried him. Quick, efficient, no more pain. I'm sure he was beyond caring at that point. Sorry for the rant. If it's suffering, put it out of it's misery.
>>
>>Quig
>>-----
>>Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Totally agree with you here Quig..If it is suffering,then quickest death = most humane..Anything else is simply a prolonged death.
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Charles Glaspie

first off , it was never said what type / species of snake or why it needs to be killed....?

...all kinds of ways to die.......dead is easy---getting there is the hard part

some people would say a car
some people would say a shovel
a rock
a board
a ruler behind the head and pull neck
CO2 ......if you have a beer tapper
freezing in a plastic bag that is very small and the snake uses the Os faster than freezing and hurting

........anyways you want to......

...........
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.....too many BIG girls.........

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.
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I don't usually post in this forum, but this thread has made me think. When I was younger I had a friend who started the car and put the creature (a hamster) in a paper bag and put it near the tail pipe. Worked well, and it took a very short time. But I agree with the earlier posts, a quick shot to the head is best.
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0.2 Leopard Geckos (Fire and Mello)
0.0.1 Blue Tongue Skink (Smoot)

Take it to a vet...the dose is much much smaller thus they charge you less. I pay 30.00 for euthanasia if needed. Simple injection , done.

why do u ned to put it down. i could never pput any living thing down myself
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Jeff Kearney Orlando Florida (407) 766 6066

0.1 CB Spouse
4.4.1 Bearded Dragons
1.0 Mali Uromastyx
2.5 Ball Pythons
1.1 Blue Dumpys Tree Frogs
1.0 Armadillo Lizard
1.0 Tokay Gecko
0.1 Marble Gecko
1.0 Fat-tailed Gecko
1.0 Lucy Leopard Gecko
0.1 Carrot Tail Leopard Gecko
0.1 Speckeled Hog-Nose
0.1 Garter Snake
1.1 Dogs
2.3 Cats

Would you rather watch it suffer? Sometimes death is better.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

1.0 albino
1.2 het albino
1.0 het caramel
1.0 het pied
0.1 poss het. pied
0.4 normals (beautiful pastel sibs)

The problem with this whole thread is we don't even know if it's a necessary thing at this moment. Everybody just went off. He did say the nearest vet was a three hour drive.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

my original thread was containted within the subject line. Then you have someone speak of my children, which is a very touchy subject as you can tell from my posts lower down the line. Then people saying they could never do that to a living thing. Then the question becomes snake husbandry. If you could never kill a living animal, what do you feed your snakes? We either buy or breed rats or other mammals with the sole purpose of furthering our hobby by growing reptiles to adults to create more snakes to eat more mammmals. I just gave a simple answer not involving children or hypocritic ideas. That came from others not from my posts. This post might fit better as a response to one of their replies.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

1.0 albino
1.2 het albino
1.0 het caramel
1.0 het pied
0.1 poss het. pied
0.4 normals (beautiful pastel sibs)

i know but i couldnt do it myself. well whats wrong with the snake?
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Jeff Kearney Orlando Florida (407) 766 6066

0.1 CB Spouse
4.4.1 Bearded Dragons
1.0 Mali Uromastyx
2.5 Ball Pythons
1.1 Blue Dumpys Tree Frogs
1.0 Armadillo Lizard
1.0 Tokay Gecko
0.1 Marble Gecko
1.0 Fat-tailed Gecko
1.0 Lucy Leopard Gecko
0.1 Carrot Tail Leopard Gecko
0.1 Speckeled Hog-Nose
0.1 Garter Snake
1.1 Dogs
2.3 Cats

I first thought Jared's C02 idea was good, but after further research, I realized its a HORRID idea.

Whatever way you choose, Spider, PLEASE
DO NOT
freeze the poor thing
-or-
suffocate it with C02.

After talking it over with Frank, his comment was that he "could never shoot Modesty (his personal normal pet ball he's grown attatched to) in the head."

I personally think, not that this is much better, but quick swing with a sharp bade (no missing, no second swings) right behind the head would be best. Disconnection at the spine beneath the brain = no connection to nerves = little pain felt.

If the reason you must euthanize it is the price of vetrenary care, please e-mail me at chelsealynn52688@hotmail.com. I'll take it off your hands and be more than willing to put time and money into it.

Good Luck
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

In their new book, "Pythons of the World, Volume II: Ball Pythons", it is their opinion and observation that Ball Pythons die quickly, peacefully, and humanely when frozen. They do however acknowledge that this method of euthanasia is controversial.
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

now you know where I get my reasoning from. My intial response was short and to the point, but one supported by well known herpetologists at that.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

1.0 albino
1.2 het albino
1.0 het caramel
1.0 het pied
0.1 poss het. pied
0.4 normals (beautiful pastel sibs)

It may be true that it's humane. But they just have so many nerve endings, they have an accute sense of touch, and temperature is ever so important to them even if it swings only a few decgrees... I find it hard to believe that it could be painless. It sounds thoughtless... you just don't know what they feel.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

You should put them in the fridge first, then the freezer...

I had to put down an animal this year. It's the same process I use to put down rats. If you cannot get a CO2 chamber, most vets will do it for a small fee.

For the record, I don't believe the freezer method is good for any live animal.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Can I get phenobarbitol? Is that a controlled substance? Also, where would you inject?
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Spider

Unfortunately it is a controled substance, and it's generally injected directly into a vein and I have absolutely NO experience with finding a vein in a reptile.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself