Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to get a little information about Varanus nebulosus. Are they sometimes for sell in Germany or any other region in Europe? Are they for sell in USA?

considering they're cites 1, I would say they will be hard to find anywhere. I only know of one keeper, and he lives in Thailand in the v.b.nebulosus natural habitat. cheers

Here is a link
Link

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Try this link
Link

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Walter Auffenbergs book on Bengal Monitors is in my opinion the best book on the market that's written about a single species. He spent years in the field studying Bengals and recording every last detail, as well as keeping several in a warehouse in Florida. The data in this book is amazing.

It's one of the few really good books to have no matter what species you keep.

cheers
Link

Keep in mind this is a book and most people that write books are ignorant of some facts. Some people write books to write books. Some people should not write books. You will have to use this information as a baseline as I do not know the author. I am sure Frank can clarify any erroneous information if it exists.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

"Keep in mind this is a book and most people that write books are ignorant of some facts. Some people write books to write books. Some people should not write books. "

Charming.
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Mampam Conservation

Hi Daniel, I am sure that is not meant for you. I know your absolutely great at putting information together. The best I have ever seen.

But what I think is the point is, this is a captive husbandry forum and as such, most information needs to be first looked at in that direction. Of course, all are welcome to look at it in anyway they want.

So, if you look at the work linked to, you will notice, very little in the area of "captive husbandry" Yes, there is some, but by todays standards, its very very little. And I know you understand theres a lot of assumptions by you and others. Those assumptions were based on the understanding and experiences of that time. Times have changed.

You see, you took a number of papers and made assumptions, but you have little to no captive experience to make assumptions with. There also is no explaining of the, who, how, where, why, whens, etc. Yes, captive husbandry is a side bar, in your book.

So I believe your work is great, but weak in the area of captive husbandry. Which is our focal point on forums like these.

Remember, these(some) people are passionate just like you, in your area. We do this on a day in day out, basis for decades. The folks you quote are fine and dandy, but if you actually research them. They had very little experience with captive husbandry. They did at the time, but times have changed.

It would be like when you came over and wrote up some of my varanid breedings. Then compare that time to now. I of course have changed my thoughts, I should have gained lots of experiece, I should have seen many many events that I had not seen in that short period previous to you coming here. And yes, From that time to now, I should have explored more possibilities and gained a better understanding. In otherwords, with time and work, we all should advance and change. So its only about time, not a slight on anyones character or intelligence.

Sir, that is only mentioned to explain, why we "HAVE" to look at those old papers with some skepticisum. Those papers did not have exposure to generations upon generations of captive lines of many species, done in many parts of the world(not just me). Those papers were mostly, produce a clutch or two, and write it up, then move on. Which was absolutely wonderful for the time, cutting edge if you will. But that time is long gone. Today is another day. We are asking different questions. What was a wonder in those days, are commonplace now.

So please do not take it personal. What was mentioned was not about you. You in fact should be proud. I know, I am proud of you.

Your work has helped move us into the future. Don't fight it, move into the future with us.

You cannot expect us to stay the same and take the same from those papers, as we(you and I) did when they were first published. Your wrote that to educate, and you did your job, we have moved on to greener newer pastures. Cheers

Sighthunter: You are on a monitor lizard forum stating 'some people shouldn't be writing books',etc. to disrespect varanid biologists? And you (admittedly) have not read the text Shay referenced. You don't know who Walter Auffenberg was? How about Daniel Bennett? That's "Mampam" who responded above. Perhaps a little education before making comments would suit you better. These are a couple of the bigger names in varanid biology studied in the field - you know, where the animals actually exist. I think they deserve some credit for what they did/do.

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My point in no way suggested not to write or read books if you look at my entire thread. If I was to read a book and excerpt without using my brain such as the Bengal Monitor eating mostly insects and small forage without realizing that the animals I received were eating Chicken Scraps from a garbage dump for successive generations or that the sample was only 2% of the entire population since the range is extensive a reader might be mislead. What if an Island population took a liking to nestling birds and has evolved to eat birds? As frank pointed out with Lacey’s some are cold tolerant some are not. You missed the gist of what I was saying and I will say it so you can understand it. I was offering the requested information to the person requesting the information since no one else did. I the stated my credentials and that was I had none (I was being honest) so being unfamiliar with Daniels book I told the reader that not all books are accurate and you would have to agree with that if you were honest. To many people read to many books with differing accounts of a pseudo-truth. As stated the reader was interested in acquiring and breeding them and as Frank stated Daniel compiles data and does not necessarily have all the answers.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I am ignorant of Varanids and I was only pointing out that not all books (as I do not know You or Varanids) are accurate as you would agree. I found your work IMPRESSIVE to say the least and the post had nothing to do with you on a personal level. In falconry (which I feel I know inside out and backwards) 99% of all the books on Falconry out there have a very narrow scope of what someone understands and they instead of having sound information quote others that are just as lacking in actual knowledge on the subject they are sharing. To much filler in most books. I have found this trend to be true throughout the book writing arena and am trying to get people to think for themselves instead of relying totally on books. I found you work to be exceptional as I could use most of the information put forth.

I learn the most by finding what works for someone and watching, listening and applying so I might draw my own conclusions. I use books and a mentor system and I build from there. I realize just because I breed the daylights out of coachwhip snakes I could get a big head and say well I can breed anything since I am one of the only people in the United States that can breed them and produce offspring consistently up through F2 generation. I have to stop myself and say “if I am honest” that I know nothing about Varanids. My questions to Frank were childlike because mentally I realize that everything I know about reptiles is squat and I will have to have the attitude of starting from scratch to succeed. I put me in an awkward situation but I now understand the basics and it has little or nothing to do with books. Again your work is a world apart as I see it so far. One honest question for you have you learned anything you would change in your books? Did you learn it from other books or someone tweaking the rules?
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Books are static (except for an on line book) in that once you publish them the information is set in stone unless you revise the book. Thinking and the natural world is progressive in that you always learn or degenerate and a book only captures a snapshot of information relative to where you the writer is at.

If I was to write a book on Falconry I would have to revise it monthly as the birds are always teaching me (yes the birds) not books and not people because the books are way behind the birds themselves. It is all about a relationship of trust between the creature and the keeper. The creature is comfortable and gives you a glimpse into their world and says to you check this out.

Just remember the Coachwhips and blackratsnakes are ill tempered and will never adjust to a captive situation! These must be sick!

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Again you hit the nail on the head. When you discribed those falconry books, you discribed many(most) monitor books exactly.

In this case, Daniel does not and has not kept monitors. He is a varanid researcher. A gatherer of varanid information. Without actual experience in keeping, successful or otherwise. He is a very good information gatherer. He is doing natural history type field research on monitors now, Greys monitors. I believe this is his first attempt at that.

So yes, you should be very skeptical when reading many is not most monitor books.

So instance, its accepted that monitors are solitary in nature. Yet in captivity, we find them to be very very social, in fact, as Tom stated, a they are socially complex, as Tom C recently discribed some other reptiles. When I investigated monitors in nature, I found them to be exactly like our captives. They paired up, much like birds, they lived in colonies, much like many birds. They had dominate males in the colony, yet paired up. Again like birds.

In fact, almost everything we see is all about socializing, for some reason or another.

The solitary behavior was supported by keepers very naive with living animals. They would capture an adult male(haggard) in one area, capture a female(old hen) in another, and think they are suppose to get along. The reality is, they would kill eachother. So yes, they had reason to think like they did.

But if they captured pairs, they would not have that problem. Or allowed them to pair up, they would not have that problem.

So instead of investigating why those haggards fought tooth and claw. They simply state, they are solitary.

Yet, we VERY SUCCESSFULLY keep all our monitors in groups.

In recent years, we have shown group nesting. You know, like Harris hawks. With both males and several females constructing and manicuring, then filling the nest after the female has laid.

Other magic things about varanid husbandry. These same experts are perplexed how we see so much with small monitors. They say, see large monitors are different. hahahahaha, Yes, large monitors are much much easier. Except for one thing, SPACE. They fail to understand, socially complex, active reptiles cannot be kept in a bird cage. You see, its very easy to keep an 18inch lizard in a 6 to 8 foot long cage. To the point, that would be like keeping a six foot monitor in a 24 to 30 foot cage. Which very very very very few do.

If you give large monitors space, its very hard to stop them. That is, if space is used correctly. Also, if any animal is crammed into small cages, any degree of social or otherwise is impossible. Ok, enough for now. Cheers