Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all im really been thinking off keeping a hot snake.I have two i mainly intersted in western diamond back and any kind of copperhead.Are these good first hot projects or no.I have kept or still keep lots of blood pythons,balls,radiated rats,garter,corns amazon tree boas,various hognoses,brown water snakes,and numerous others ive been keeping snakes for 7 years do you guys think im ready to move onto hot?Any help is greatly app

It seems like what the first hot should be is a common question.The answer is not on this forum.The answer is in your abilty,age,availible antivenon and the laws of your state.This is a question that scares me a bit.Educate your self on venomous reptiles.Get a mentor to help you be safe and good luck.

I was asking for an opinion not an answer.Im 28 been keeping and breeding snakes for 7 years.In my state you have to take a class and pass a writen exam(Missouri).I was asking what everyone thought about the western diamond back and copperhead as a first hot snake. Thanks Shaun T

a western dback would prob not be a good frist one they can be very aggresive and have pretty strong venom. a copperhead would be good and a pygmy rattler would also work

I have heard that copperheads are very fast snakes are they usually aggressive?I like pygmy rattlers have caught them before when i lived in georgia do they make good captives? Thanks Shaun t

Both of those snakes pretty much suck on a hook. Really, the best first venomous snake is your mentor's snake.

Find one and learn with their animals. Teaching yourself is like teaching yourself gun safety. You can do it, but how do you know that you're doing everything right?

I'm going to be 29 in October. I worked with someone for the last 6 years and worked for one year with someone when I was 18.

You said that you're looking for opinions... It's my opinion that I'd rather not be shot at all, rather than having to chose between a 22 and a 45. Both accidents are going to suck. Being bit by a venomous snake because of lack of training is simply being bit. There's no better or worse bite, imo.

I think hook manners should be one of the main considerations when considering your first venomous snake. I've found most copperheads to eventually become fairly easy to move with hooks. Water moccasins also seem to ride hooks well and, in my opinion, would also be a reasonable choice for a first venomous (especially if obtained as a neonate / juvenile). Steer clear of the WDBs for now.

But, as everyone else has mentioned, you should ideally spend some time working with an experienced venomous keeper before trying this on your own. There's something about the mindset of venomous snakes makes them act differently than nonvens ( I think they know they're venomous ) so keeping any species of nonvenomous for whatever length of time does not fully prepare you for keeping venomous animals.

Best of luck,,
WK

i agree you should get a mentor before you jump into HOT care. BUT for people like myself, i live in WA state and there arent many people keeping hots where i live so im having to teach myself.
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my babies:
0.1.0 Epicrates cenchria cenchria (brazilian rainbow boa)
0.0.1 Lampropeltis Getula Floridana (florida kingsnake)
0.1.0 Hydrodynastes gigas (false water cobra)
0.0.1 Grammostola rosea (rose-hair)
0.0.2 Grammostola aureostriata (choco gold knee)
0.0.1 Avicularia versicolor (Antilles pinktoe)
0.0.1 Pamphobeteus sp. (Ecuadorian purple-bloom)
0.0.1 Hadrurus arizonensis (Arizona hairy scorpion)

Apparently, MO has a law saying you need a permit for native venomous snakes (copperheads included). E-mail me privately and I'll get you contact with the person who relayed this information to me - he also lives in MO and keeps some vens.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

I second the mentor idea....Learn, learn, learn....Find someone in your area that works with the species you're interested in and learn how to do things the right way from someone that knows...IMO, only then will you be qualified to "go it on your own"

All that being said, if the choices are between A. contortrix and C. atrox, it's A. contortrix all the way...These animals don't get large, and are rarely "aggressive"...they can be difficult to "hook", but overall make good, solid captives...

C. atrox get quite large, often have irascible attitudes and can pump ALOT of venom into you if you get too close...If you've never seen pics of a bad atrox bite, I'd urge you to view them before considering acquiring one...It's NOT pretty...alot of swelling, necrosis and other yucky stuff....While death is unlikely, limb/appendage morbidity is a DEFINITE possibility with this species....On a positive note, atrox usually eat well and present few husbandry problems to the responsible hot keeper...

Whichever animal you choose, understand that they can both make your life pretty darn bad if you make a mistake...therefore, train as much as you can before getting one of your own...

Good Luck...

-AzAtrox

If you have to ask, you are not ready to own a venomous snake. Copperheads do have a relatively mild venom, but tell that to lep1pic1, who lost a finger to a Copperhead bite.

Just remember If you are bitten, don't expect the appendage to be as it was.Copperheads on the LD 50 scale are mild compaired to others, but it can still cripple and cause amputation. Each bite is different.

In side of many non ven keepers is this fuse that is lit for there time to get a hot snake.I believe that a person will know when they are ready or if they will ever be ready long befor they ever ask.I have kept hots for 31 years and never dreamed of much else except women and harleydavidsons.Wich both scare me more than a snake.I wish you the best of luck in your endevors. With laws the way they are and all of the bad press we get new keepers make me nervous.But it sounds like you are looking for a serious answer.Here are a few good firsts .Small vipera sp. cantil, copperheads ,eyelash vipers,all are dangerous,but if you make a fatal mistake you will most likely live.Personaly I like all the new world pitvipers.

I had this discussion with another hot keeper,Phobos. Best first hot is a loaded question.Everyone seem's to recomend a Pigmy or a Copperhead. Pigmy's are a pain in the arse to hook.For there size they are pretty hot as well.Plus they are generally grumpy.
Copperheads can be either good or bad. This depends on the snake.There is NO!!! good first hot. Get training from someone with experience .Let's face it we've all "winged" it and came out on top. With luck ,alot of that and some skill we've been able to survive and post on these forums as tower's of knowledge.Best hot is someone else's. If your honest with yourself you'll know when and if you're ready.It take's time and expense for proper cages' tool's' and knowledge.Sorry for the long post.

thanks for all the answers i really already thought i was rrady for the jump to hot.But i wanted exp people to keep me grounded.Snakes are my life besides my wife and kids(who also love snakes)I want everyone to know i have caught and handled hot snakes many times and i would never do anything to shed bad light on our hobby. Thanks again everyone Shaun t

No one was saying that your actions were certainly going to hurt the hobby or that these were your intentions. People here just feel that you need more experience keeping them in captivity.

It's a whole different ball game than handling them in the wild when you find them. Also, you've got to take kids into consideration. I think the best way to do things is to build a separate "out building" in the back yard that is capable of housing your hots... even if it is just one. It's one more barrier that can keep nosy kids away from your deadly animals.

Water moccasin is the best first hot. Just my opinion if I had to choose one without the politics of hot keeping. They are great feeders, they get quite tame (don’t take that the wrong way, it’s just true) They do cling nicely to a hook. They get quite accustomed to routine cage cleaning, moving, feeding, and you the keeper. Generally pretty bullet proof without need for trips to the vet. I see copperheads and pygmy’s on a lot of first hot lists, which I wouldn’t agree with. The idea of starting with a snake whose venom isn’t considered very potent, well, that’s the wrong approach to the whole thing. Moccasins are underrated, and I would add you are most likely ready for something like that even without a mentor. I would say if you’re going into fast elapids or snakes with known quirks in handling, shifting, etc definitely work with somebody else’s snakes first and learn.

Do you know a good breeder of Water moccasins?Are there any morphs? Thanks Shaun T

I would scour the classifieds on this site, or if you can go to reptile shows.