Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The other day I was in my buddy's pet store talking to him and a couple of other people. We just happened to be on the topic of Arizona's venomous snakes and also gila monsters. In walks this woman who works for Wildlife & Fisheries. I've seen her before and knew who she was. She was buying some feeders for some of her personal animals. The topic had now turned to the venom of gila monsters. She overheard and decided to get in on the conversation. This was her exact quote "Well I know that gila monsters get their venom from what they eat". Did I mention that she works in the education division?

Well, here's a couple of quick thoughts:

1) USFWS and DNR folks will oftentimes strike up conversations in hopes of finding out who may be keeping certain wildlife illegally - this even includes sounding a bit uneducated. Stings/busts are set up in this manner and it's usually those folks who talk too much that end up getting nailed.

2) Although venom production is very complex, and in the case of gila monsters not necessarily directly linked to obtaining certain substances from the food it eats, it does require an energy source and that starts with food - w/out it, an organisms ability to generate energy to produce venom and every other bodily function becomes diminished. So, in its most simplistic terms, I suppose the USFWS employee wasn't completely wrong.

>>The other day I was in my buddy's pet store talking to him and a couple of other people. We just happened to be on the topic of Arizona's venomous snakes and also gila monsters. In walks this woman who works for Wildlife & Fisheries. I've seen her before and knew who she was. She was buying some feeders for some of her personal animals. The topic had now turned to the venom of gila monsters. She overheard and decided to get in on the conversation. This was her exact quote "Well I know that gila monsters get their venom from what they eat". Did I mention that she works in the education division?
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

n/p.

True, Fish and Wildlife Services at both the state and Federal level do try and bait people. But be real . Anyone with experience in dealing with these agencies from reading the story can tell that it's a million to one that this was the deal . This story as told is just another example of a poorly qualified individual filling a job opening. A common occurrence and one that I've seen many times in dealing with various wildlife " authorities " not just here in the states but everywhere. It's a problem at all levels from field agents to administrative. I couldn't say (at least not within the tos) if this is the product of to few qualified applicant's or the result of failures within the selection process.

As for the rest . So anyone who is not familiar with Gila monsters doesn't get confused. Gila monsters do not derive their venom directly from the food they eat as the statement implied. They are born with venom producing glands just like rattlesnakes, cobras, etc. To say the USFWS employee wasn't completely wrong in the most simplistic terms is really grasping at straws to try and validate her comment. It's obvious from the tone of the post that the Wildlife & Fisheries women who was quoted as saying " Well I know that gila monsters get their venom from what they eat " did not know what she was talking about if you really want to put it in the most simplistic terms.

Ernie Eison

westwoodreptiles.com

Ernie, you are 100% correct on both counts - I was saying some of it in jest (such as the venom component and I'll agree with your comments that in its most simple sense, she was misinformed unless she was being covert in order to try to strike up a conversation in which case she's just doing her job...thanks for clarifying that up for those out there who are not aware of direct venom production) to show that sometimes we can get fairly nit picky when it comes to bashing USFWS and other conservation agencies.....it's the "anti government" mentality that many people have and they get a bad rap over it. I deal with state and federal agencies on a regular, almost daily basis and I was speaking simply from my experiences and how things are sometimes done in my neck of the woods....so, that part "is real". I've worked hard at developing a good relationship with them and feel that's important. BUT, I will say that in this particular instance, it's most likely that the officer was just misinformed and probably someone who doesn't have a herp background....not a real big deal. Wildlife conservation officers aren't trained or expected to be well versed on all aspects of the exotic reptile trade or even basic physiology - that's nearly impossible and that's why they rely heavily on local experts that they have created good networks with. I enjoy providing support whenever needed and feel strongly that they are doing their best to hold those accountable who are breaking the law. Other divisions w/in fish and wildlife or state DNR's have both incredibly highly qualified people and those who are probably less proficient....it happens in every field - look at the herp profession; we have are good ones and bad ones here too. Ernie, from what little info that was provided (such as whether this USFWS person was in law enforcement or some othe division), I am in complete agreement with you.

>>True, Fish and Wildlife Services at both the state and Federal level do try and bait people. But be real . Anyone with experience in dealing with these agencies from reading the story can tell that it's a million to one that this was the deal . This story as told is just another example of a poorly qualified individual filling a job opening. A common occurrence and one that I've seen many times in dealing with various wildlife " authorities " not just here in the states but everywhere. It's a problem at all levels from field agents to administrative. I couldn't say (at least not within the tos) if this is the product of to few qualified applicant's or the result of failures within the selection process.
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>> As for the rest . So anyone who is not familiar with Gila monsters doesn't get confused. Gila monsters do not derive their venom directly from the food they eat as the statement implied. They are born with venom producing glands just like rattlesnakes, cobras, etc. To say the USFWS employee wasn't completely wrong in the most simplistic terms is really grasping at straws to try and validate her comment. It's obvious from the tone of the post that the Wildlife & Fisheries women who was quoted as saying " Well I know that gila monsters get their venom from what they eat " did not know what she was talking about if you really want to put it in the most simplistic terms.
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>>Ernie Eison
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>>
>>
>>westwoodreptiles.com
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

As stated in my original post she works in the education division, not the law enforcement division. She drives a big green pick-up just like the law enforcement guys except on the side where it would say 'Enforcement' it says 'Education'. This made it a little more interesting as these people are used for talks at schools and other places. I would think that they would have to have the most knowledge because they are in a 'teaching' position.

and as a taxpayer, you pay her salary..........

Granted, but her specialty may be in mammalogy, birds, etc...herp folks w/in these departments are usually not as prevelant. I'm not trying to defend her but she's not lucky like some of you who possess a lot more knowledge (but I will agree in that if you don't know what you are talking about, you are better off not talking at all). As far as tax payer money, believe me, they don't make enough to put a dent in your tax bill and many of these positions are getting cut left and right.

>>and as a taxpayer, you pay her salary..........
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

As a taxpayer, she pays her own salary as well.

What was your response to her? Did you guys talk about this further or did you just let her think she knew what she was talking about?

Jason