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Here is a picture of the Female Aplomado Falcon. I thought you would like to know about their ability to hunt. King Frederick The Second has written a falconry piece about the (Alethe) which was traced to the Aplomado. In his article the Aplomado had a legendary ability to hunt and little regard for the size of quarry.

What I know is this, the Aplomado falcon has lived up to the expectation and the “books” in our recent history have fallen short of the facts. Our 20th and 21st century falconers have insisted on two things I have found in error first misconception is their inability to take a pitch ( stay overhead at 400 to 700 feet). The second misconception is their inability to take a hood.

The Aplomado lives up to the legend in that they will hunt all day long as a Falconry bird (endless amounts of energy) because they like the game. They will also take quarry twice to three times their size. The reason they will not take a pitch for other falconers is two reasons. They are very gamey and will usually chase the first thing that moves. In traditional falconry the weight must be cut to achieve success but big mistake with these birds once they learn the game (falconry) they will not leave you. The only criteria is you better have endless amounts of quarry and time to hunt them (very demanding). They are by far the funest small falcon to hunt with.

They will indeed take a hood, they are strong willed so it is a matter of sticking to a routine and not playing into their attempt to sway you. They in no way hold the hooding process against you in the field. The Aplomado does get disoriented when hooded but learns to overcome this in short order. The disorientation is the reason they resist the hood initially but if hooding is started from day one there is no problem.

The bird laying on the bed was raised by its parents known as a chamber raised bird, wild in most respects but as you see has mellowed and acts like an imprinted bird while maintaining attitude in the field. He has also learned to hood well. He hunts by (Waiting On) staying overhead at 400 to 700 feet and following me up to 4 hours without being hungry. He also has killed a wide range of difficult quarry such as Dove, Bobwhite Quail and Barn Pigeons (all that I am allowed to list) LOL.

The reason for the misconception is that a very good well meaning short wing falconer (one that fly’s hawks) wrote a book. His expertise is (Hawks) and my expertise is Falcons. By the way he lives in Arizona, and like our earlier conversation they are two completely different disciplines. The Aplomado if given a chance hunts much like a Peregrine on crack!

Included a picture of one of the whitest Gyrfalcons in the world here at the ranch. It is one of the few falcons we are keeping along with a pair of Eagle Owls and Aplomado’s.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

That was a great post, but I thought we were in the monitor forum...are we not?

You know how so many of you call me cryptic. Well thats not what I am, its only crpytic to them because those minions lack the ability to understand what I am saying. No matter how simple I try to say it.

In this post, He compared what captive varanid keepers are experiencing. Such things as old information, compared to recent more indepth current information. He mentioned a known acient falconer what was cutting edge at the time. He mentioned some basic thoughts that were accurate at the time. But have changed recently. Thought actual results. The doing, not the talking about.

He compared us varanid keepers exactly. His post was, do the same thing over and over, you get the same results. You change the game, and you can recieve different results.

He explained it was not a different bird, but different keepers that was the cause and effect of the information differences.

This was a perfect(in my peabrain) explination of the thread below. He has nothing against King Fredrick. He just did things a bit different, WITH THE SAME SUBJECT. Get it, king and all.

Of course, there was more. But you have to have a base understanding of falconry to understand what he was saying. He hit the nail on the head. Yes, I have a little(tiny bit, only four or five years worth) of training in falconry.

To change it up a bit, I will explain why Sighthunter may do well with monitors. It does not matter what he starts with(them old metal buildings. As I was so concerned with in my first posts to sighthunter. As he has shown the ability to do whats needed.

If your observant. you will notice the white falcon, is standing on one foot. Birds only do that when they are comfortable. So that bird is not flighty. You will notice there is foam insulation on the ceiling DIRECTLY above the bird/s, This is to offer conditions that allow the bird to choose a suitable perch. You see, raptors do not hide(shelter) like monitors, they perch. They do so in a SAFE place. ITs safe from predators(other raptors as well) and provides a good foot feel and of course proper temps. A raptor, MUST HAVE THIS TO BE ANYTHING like normal. It must have this to behave in any normal fashion.

To compare this, in the old days, they perched birds, but forceibly(to force, is that a word?). They perched them in places not suitable to the bird. A simple little thing like this was a roadblock to captive breeding, which was very rare in the old days. A few little modifications to that changes the ballgame. A suitable set of perches, may make all the difference in the results you recieve. Couple that with known practices like a chambered bird(raised by its parents) which means it is accustom to birds of its own kind. Starts to make a HUGE difference.

In an Ancient art like FALCONRY, there are many many "knowns" as falconry has a long long history of success(not all levels of success). Yet, as Sighthunter is pointing out. There is still room for improvement.

With captive varanid husbandry, its new. There is very little of a history of success. In fact, we have a history of failure. Most of what we think we know is based on failure. Therefore, its not all that hard to CHANGE, because we have no set direction. Danniel Bennett is envolved in this thread, so I will use him(I also have high regard for him) as an example. He is an accepted monitor expert, yet, when he came here, he saw many many things he never saw before. From his first monitor voluntarily nesting(a mertens) to female forming eggs in one day. To monitors working as a group. All these were new to him. Yet, he IS The expert. To me, those things are daily and commonplace. I mention that because, it would be impossible for us to see, eye to eye. We have different experiences. But that does not mean I do not like Daniel or respect him. We simply have different experiences.

What is so sad is this lack of change. Daniel or others defending books and articules that are old and out of date. Other authors defending, tooth and claw information, out of context and out of date. This shows varanids historians are in a state of denial. They refuse to apply the present to the past. Which is commonplace in all walks of life. Its just rampant with varanids.

Back to Sighthunters post, IT WAS GREAT, it was telling, and it was spot on. And it gave me insight. Thanks Sighthunter. Cheers

All he actually said was, there is room for change with varanids. And yes, I agree. Cheers

Thank you for the kind words. I follow your threads and can see the roadblocks. I have nothing against books but when 20 different books say the same thing there is a lack of individual input. I am not saying this is the case in the monitor community but I see it all over, someone has a degree of success and they want to write a book except they only have a very small piece of the puzzle and like coping something on a copy machine if you throw the original away each time and increase the size by 1% after 100 copies you will have a distorted view of the same thing. Every time I read a new Falconry book I want to ram my head into a post!
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Boy are you in for a world of hurt, with monitor books, its a bit odd. They are normally written by academics(those not practicing captive husbandry) With very few exceptions. Bernd Edinmuller, wrote a small book and he is very good at breeding monitors. But there is a huge problem. He is the polar opposite of us. We have space, he has none. So the conditions(husbandry) are not transferable.

When I first started, I did what I thought was normal. I visited the zoos and private keepers that were leading in the area of captive husbandry. While I found nothing wrong with them. Not in the least. I chose not to follow their direction. The reason I did not follow their direction was simple. It was nothing against them. But what they were doing was not much fun.

It appeared they wanted to breed monitors, without letting the monitors be, well "monitors" they kept them is small cages, tiny if you will. And broke them down to the bare minimum. Yes they bred them, but they did not allow the monitors to express themselves. They did it mechanically, if you will. I on the otherhand am interested in behavior.

I, being a long time reptile breeder, has always bred reptiles by exploring their abilities. Not restricting their abilities. I am interested in behavior, not basic function. It appears you do the same, from your comments like, an aplomado hunts like a peregrine on crack. Tells me you "see" what they do. It appears most varanid keepers, including experts, do not care what they do. Or how they do it. Heck, most do not even care to allow them to do anything.

In all my travels, I have found only one varanid "expert" that I enjoyed conversation with. That was Dr. Ebe Krebs. He like me, does not claim to be a varanid expert or any such label. He is a ethlogist that picked varanids to work with. Which is my REAL interest, their behavior. I work with monitors, not in an effort to produce babies. I allow them to express behavior. Weird as it seems, when they are allowed to do that. They throw out eggs like pez despencers.

Which is one reason I view your setup with some skeptisium. Yours plans are to have seasonal cages. Like your active snake cages. Have a winter, a spring, a summer, and fall. The problem is, monitors(all I have worked with and that is many) are like mice or rats. They will reproduce to the level of support. That is, they lay eggs as long as they can wring out some tiny amount of energy from their enviornment. Seasons have nothing to do with it.

I learned that in conditions much like yours appear to be. I hoped they would rest in the winter and breed in the spring and summer. Then I ran into a problem, my healthist females kept dying in winter. Upon dissection there was a common problem. They were all gravid(in the middle of winter) And yes, they were cold. Cold and gravid kills them. hahahahahahahaha

Once a told of a sad story of a Heavy female attempting to dig a nesting burrow. The ground temp was 28F. Hmmmmmmmmm I moved her inside and all worked out well.

I will not explain everything, so you can ask questions, but in the end. Varanids were not the animals in the books. In fact, they were polar opposites. Which makes me wonder, what the heck were/are those folks looking at. Mind you, I too, am a field biologist. And yes, I spend over a year and a half in the field looking at the very subjects I was working with(again something I thought was normal)

Back to the books, Bernd stated that V.acanthurus, could lay two clutches, anything more and they will die. He also stated conditions and amount of food. So as any wiseguy would do, I changed the conditions and amount of food and sure enough, that changed the results. At this moment, I have a gravid V.acanthurus, that is gravid on her 19th clutch in a row. Which means his statement was naive. It was accurate with his conditions, but the conditions were restrictive. He only spoke of a part of V.acanthurus's reproductive potential. He did not speak of their entire reproductive potential.

He spoke of times, like five weeks from copulation to deposition. Which is well within normal. But oddly, we commonly experience many species of varanids depositing eggs, every two weeks. Clutch after clutch after clutch. Which means, that anything in a month to more, is very naive.

This approach was taken to larger varanids as well. Of course they were a bit slower, often having 4 to 8 clutches a year. Oddly, they often accused me of killing my monitors, as surely they would not live all that long, WITH ALL THAT reproductive STRESS. The problem was, ours lived as long or longer then theirs. As they appear to miss the boat, in order to have any animal reproduce successfully, the task is to reduce undue stress. As it turns out, reproduction is not stressful, not at all. Its a normal function of a healthy indivudal. Its not something that occurs in the best of conditions, but something that occurs at the minimum conditions. Anything below that has to be considered poor, unsuitable, or even horrible conditions. As I often mention, if you treated a dog or cat that way(kept them in conditions they physically could not reproduce), you would go to jail(share a cell with M.Vick) for animal cruelty.

As an example, I made a cross(sorry, I cannot stop myself) between two small species. (kinda like crossing a aplomado with a krestrel)I keep a group outside with no additional support. Note, they were raised inside and return inside in the winter. This group is 2.5. They are on their fifth round of clutches now. I will be digging some up today. The funny part is, they are little over a year old. I know, I hatched them. Again, the funny part is, they are fed about 3 times a week. Sometimes four, if I remember. They are normal(wild) appearing, not fat(how could they be) They work as a group, no fighting, or bickering. All individuals work on others nesting. They are tame. If I put my hand in the cage, they climb all over it. Heck one recently escaped for a month or so. Then I caught it while it was attempting to get back in the cage. Turns out, it was about to cycle and the males were IN the cage. hahahahahahahahahaha, you never see that with raptors do you????????(joke)

If your still reading this, heres the point, Daniel Bennett has been here, he has seen this with his own two eyes. Yet, something very stange and very human happens.

When he is here and sees it, He SEES whats going on, he admits its not what he understands from what he has read or written. But admits to seeing it here. Then he goes back to the land of no reptiles( The U.K.) and then does the human thing(begins to deny). He then is not exposed to what he saw here. Hes only exposed to others with their/his old views. So whats a boy to do, he then denies what he saw, he rationalizes what he saw. Then slips back into his academic ways. Consider, Daniel is one of the good ones. He at least had the confidence to come here in the first place. Most did not. I invited all the authors, all the experts to see this in person. Very very few actually did so. Most choose to not see this, as they knew it would have to change their views. While they constantly deny this stuff occurs. They also know it does, as we have shown it a million times over. They are best served by not being exposed to something with has to make them question what they know(they think they know)

So all in all, it boils down to two sides of the fence. The academics, those that "work" with papers and words. And practioners, those that work with the animals. Successful practioners are few and far between. And they are too busy practicing to write books. The academics, have all the time in the world to write books, as they do not actually DO anything, but gather others work. So here we are. Sadly simple and sorta accurate.

I am really really going to enjoy your progress. I would like you to think about your choice of species. Its a bit like falconry. You can "man" small raptors very quickly. You can do that with many birds in a short time. You will learn all the basics of manning and conditioning. Then you can move on to larger raptors that take a little more time and more patience on your part. This is how I was trained with raptors, they made we work with Kestrels before anything larger. They(the falconers, made me read first, then practice manning, conditioning, they training to fly, with small birds.

With that in mind, you would be better off taking a year and learning small varanids, as they are quicker, but exactly the same. More fun too. Then applying a base education to animals your dream about.

Heres one tiny thought. If your successful and I clearly see your one with that intention. You will have babies coming out your ears. Monitors are explosive reproductively, not like raptors or snakes. Just think if your coachwhips had ten clutches a year. The point is, where do they go????? In all reality, anyone with a snake or bearded dragon, can successfully house small monitors. In apartments and all such.

But, VERY VERY VERY few can house larger monitors. Any monitor that get four foot or more, eliminates most of the possible homes. With larger monitors(five foot plus) there are nearly no suitable homes. The reality is, if you produce 10 or so larger monitors a year, you will find good homes for them. Anything more will be destined to a living death in someones apartment. This is not a judgement on the people, just a judgement on their resources.

Of course, you have the facilities, in fact, tooo much. hahahahahahahahaha. You could be a chicken rancher, hahahahahahaha hehehehehehehe, I know, being a falconer, that is really insulting. Cheers

My coachwhip snakes double clutched every year but let us stick to birds and books. In the falconry community they ask how do you do that. I very carefully explain and show the so called experts but academia as in you case gets in the way (books) I am fighting books. I have falcons that will hunt in a focused fashion for 4 or more hours, unheard of in the falconry community and catch game one after the other. I can catch four head of game back to back and I never loose birds. Why because it is what they do in the wild.

The “Experts” rationalize my success it’s a fluke, its genetics, its whatever! The problem they have is, I can do it every time and I never loose a bird. I trained 8 birds last year so I have a good base line. I sent a trained first year falcon to south Dakota and the guy calls me and explained that she killed 3 sage grouse in three days and never flew under 1,500 feet high, no weight control whatsoever! His comment was “she makes the hardest quarry in the world look simple“!

Why? The falcons want to hunt (see a parallel?) They like to hunt (see a parallel?) They know how to hunt (see a parallel) I work on the relationship on there normal down time I am the coyote or deer that spooks up game while they are flying. In the Galapagos the hawks follow tourists because they are scaring up game, very basic very simple.

Everyone wants to (Train) something that already know what to do just gain its confidence and work to consistently put game up under your bird and follow the Falcons natural developmental progression. Let it get real hungry like an immature falcon learning the ropes and then as it earns the weight let it keep it how many haggard falcons have been trapped thin?

The second misconception is that they will fly off, why should they, you saw how comfortable my chamber raised male was lying on the bed enjoying my company. The first fundamental flaw is the improper use of the lure. In all the books it is the first lesson (worst mistake possible) puts the focus on the falconer where should the focus be? On the sky and on game. My very last lesson is the lure.

Back to academia I have had this bottled up for years and saw a parallel to our quandary since I started reading your posts so when you talk it is if you are playing music to my ears, I soak it up and fully understand what you are saying. I trace my problem to people who were put on a Pedi-stool because of their stature or ability to write a book. Because everyone has been doing it the other way for years and I break from tradition. In my case I am fighting books and 2000 years of tradition but the first falconers were like the tourists on Galapagos the ancient man who was befriended by a falcon. He was scaring game he could not catch, the falcon or hawk caught the game. He waited his turn and took the leftovers (in my case fair trade for the quarry). The next day he looked up to his old friend the falcon waiting for him to spook something and falconry was born.

I have experts from all over the world coming to watch my birds fly, they ask questions and the books are unchanged. (see a parallel)? There I feel better now! LOL
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Ha! Ha! Ahh, c'mon, now. You know good 'n darn well that if someone else had made a similar post about cuban tree frogs you'd be all over it, like stank on ----. Ha! Ha!

Here's my disclaimer for this reply:
Don't anyone jump the gun on anything I say until you read this whole message. I'm not condemning or gettting onto anyone. I see & understand everyone's point.

After reading "sighthunter's" first post I said the very same thing to myself that "holygouda" said. I paused and pondered it for awhile.

KS is too big of a forum (too many different categories) for most of us to browse & post in. We tend to get attached to some members of a particular forum, like here, the monitor forum, and there are times that some of us may feel like sharing something other than "monitors" with other members. I say, "Let it be." It doesn't happen very often and we all could use to increase our knowledge or share each other's interest. No, "holygouda," I don't think you're wrong, after all, I said that I had the same thought.

I admire the smart thinking of "sighthunter." Bless his heart, he couldn't have started out here on a more wrong foot than he did with his radio frequency thread. (sighthunter - nothing against you or your concerns in that area, not at all, but as I'm sure you're now aware of, this forum is geared less towards those kind of aspects & more towards actual keeping)

But "sighthunter's" a persistent lil' rascal and he kept pressing for real answers. It worked. He found more common ground with Frank and zeroed in on it. Smart! Not to suck up, 'cause I honestly don't think that's what he's done, but to break the ice. Good job, "sighthunter!" I hope more people follow your lead.

Now, back to you Frank.
> > > In this post, He compared what captive varanid keepers are experiencing.

Ha! Ha! Man, I thought I had a stretch of imagination. No, "sighthunter" didn't tie his post in by comparing it to varanids, you did. And I think you did one heck of a job in doing so. You made it very relevant, informative and thought provoking. If the falcon post was made in the thread below that discussed books, it definitely could've been relevant.

Since I've always had an interest in falconry I thoroughly enjoyed the post and I thank you for saving it from possible deletion. Once again you take so little and produce so much. In other words, a lot of good has come from the falcon post & "holygouda's" post, thanks to you, Frank!

But after all's said & done, who am I to talk. Ain't I the one that made a post titled: Betcha ain't got one of these" with a turkey on my shoulder as a hillbilly parrot. (consider your source) Hahahahahaha!!!

Ya'll take care & have a good one!

Later!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I see everything in black and white. I take my liks when I deserve them. You are right as I do look for answers and I am persistant. If you were to go to the Indigo Forum I am more at home but truth be told Monitor Lizards have always been at the top of my wish list just as Falconry has been an intrest for you.

Not to suck up but without someone like Frank that is willing to give strait answers (unlike the masses) there is no reason for me to play guessing games with the other breeders, (secrets you know).

I am plain wrap, you get what you see, brain damage and all. I like Frank am willing to share with those who will not distort the facts. You will notice I never claimed to know anything about monitors, (a nubee) but frank chose to share the gold based on motives and character alone but he did his homework, he fleshed it out he never ignored me. It is a good lesson for other nubees "what are your motives? Frank is not stupid and he will flesh it out just as I do to same to those with with wrong motives. Then comes "The cone of silence"

This I know, no matter how much we might get along he will not hesetate to line me or anyone out that gets off track and that alonekeeps this fourum fun and focused. I will now go back to my listening mode thank you Hillbilly for the welcome.....Bill
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

It is a waste of someones time to give out information if the individual receiving the information is not able to process the information. I am able to process what Frank has shared and I appreciate the information.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Nearly all of us are newbies. I've had a monitor for just over a year now and I'm definitely still learnin'. I learn everytime I observe him or the other two I have, plus from what I read here and somewhere else. And yes, I'm a book buff, I love 'em. But fortunately I usually only get to read about half of all the books I've got. Hahaha!!!

I'm in the process of reading Daniel's sav book now. So far I like it, but I have no prior knowledge to compare it to. I like the way it's written, laid out, and it's not in large print like a child's book, like some others I've read.

I'm only in the 1st Chapter - "In the Wild," and I find it very informative. And to Daniel's credit, earlier, another author was quoted as saying, "...V.acanthurus, could lay two clutches, anything more and they will die." Daniel stated, "We know that in captivity savannah monitor lizards can produce clutches of eggs every few months, or even weeks," (The statement has a reference leading to a Herpetological Review 32(4): 244-245, done in 2001 by: Retes/Bennett) That quote is an excerpt from Page 29 of "The Savannah Monitor Lizard" The truth about Varanus exanthematicus By: Daniel Bennett & Ravi Thakoordyal 2003.

"sighthunter," definitely stick around, Frank could use another friend, after all, I think his dawg is gettin' pretty old. Hahahahaha!!!! Nah, just pickin' at him.
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Interesting. And great birds!