Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We are attempting to fridge hibernate our 2 eastern box turtles for the first time! We're using recomendatons from the Tortoise Trust website for substrate, which states 1/3 play sand, 1/3 spahgnum moss and 1/3 peat moss compost...

The peat moss compost that we got says it's from Canada, it is the only thing they had available around where we live, this is what the bag says:

Pure Spaghnum Peat Moss - Les Tourbes Nirom Peat Moss Inc.

Has anyone ever used this brand and is it ok?

Thanks
Melinda

That is what you want and perfectly fine. It is peat derived from the decaying remains Sphagnum moss, "harvested" in Canada. That means it is the right kind of peat.

Peat moss, although it is excellent at holding water, is ironically difficult to wet at first when you are starting with a dry product. I would soak as much as you need in a bucket for a day or two or three before you use it. Once wet, it holds water very well and rewets easily (unless allowed to become bone dry). I don't know where you live, but if you live within the natural range of your Easterns, consider letting them hibernate outside. I have done this for 3 years in NJ. I was very nervous the first year, less so with each additional passing year.

Woodnative:

Thanks for the reply! We are in SC, and yes it is natural habitat for easterns the difficulty we face is hard clay under the soil! We are concerned that if they burrow down #1 they won't be able to get deep enough before hitting the clay and #2 rain and the inability for it to drain through the clay in cold temps could 'cause us issues with them.

We have a mini fridge, with the container set up with 1/3 play sand, the peatmoss and spaghnum all mixed together and ready to go when they are ready. It is starting to cool down here and we have been tweaking the fridge temps with the container in there etc...

So we will be ready. But your answer on the peat has put us at ease...thanks again and wish us luck!

If we had better conditions we would leave then out in a heartbeat, we were in FL for the last 5 years and they did winter right outside in their enclosure. Here we don't have that luxury!

Thanks,
Melinda

Why not just remove some of the clay an refill the the holes with peat moss, soil, and even a bit of old leaves? This is what I've done and the soil here isn't particularly hard.

OK, well that would be an option I guess...what we are concerned about though is the following. We live in South Carolina, where do you live? And it does get cold here in the winter and we get freezes...

Our outdoor enclosure is big, it is separated in 2 sides with one turt on each side that has like 4'w x 8'l of space. We have a hide area that we could make probably bigger around 2-3'w x 4'l...and yes we can did down and remove some clay, fill with peat moss, soil, leaves etc...another concern is if we confine them to an area like this will they be unhappy that they do not have free reign to roam the enclosure to find their "spot" to hibernate, or will they make due with what they are provided? In previous years of them being left out to hibernate through winter we have one guy that goes down pretty deep...maybe a foot or so.

What we are concerned about is that it seems to retain moisture. It rained here on Sunday evening for quite some time and the enclosure is still wet when we turn the soil over, I mean it is not dripping, soaking wet...it's damp. When you go down about 8-9" it is still damp/wet...

When we built this enclosure we excavated alot of the clay. We also went so far as to custom make a hardware cloth bottom that is attached to the sides so nothing could get in as we noticed that we had some creature (probably moles, gopher??) burrowing in the yard. This ensured that nothing could get in...the hardwar cloth is about 1' below soil level...

Any advice, experience any of you have with this is greatly appreciated. My hubby really would rather not fridge hibernate them.

Thanks
Malinda
Link

Neat looking enclosure. Also, it is very interesting that both of your turtles have that flattened appearance.

I live in the Carolinas. I have rock hard red clay in my yard. My turtles do just fine. Even when the soil was "raw", and hadn't been amended like it is now, my turtles brumated outdoors without issue. Don't worry yourself by over thinking this.

No need to confine the turtles to one area. It sounds like you have done some soil conditioning already. All you need to do is provide them with a deep compost pile. I use a mixture of primarily pine needles and leaves. Pile it all the way to the mesh lid of your enclosure, and keep adding material as it compresses through the winter. The turtles will dig into the compost and "snuggle" into the clay.

You're right, the real concern about clay is that it holds so much water. If you dig a trench and fill it with material that is lighter than clay, you will be making a soup bowl. Water will collect in there even worse. With clay, you need to build your soil upwards.

The turtles should voluntarily dig into the compost pile. If they have a tough time adjusting this first year, you can always fall back on the "fridge plan".

I keep Easterns, Floridas, Three-toes, Deserts, and Ornates outdoors year round in your same region.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Ken:

Thanks for the reply, and the compliments on the enclosure! I was hoping you might remember us. When we were building the enclosure you were alot of help to us then as well as we were worried baout flooding etc...once we got the soil in and planted that issue seemed to somewhat go away...

The turtles flat appearance...this is a long story...but here goes!

When we got these turts 5 yrs ago we ordered them online "baby box" turltes...wish I could tell you the company out of CA...when they arrived they were small, soft and sick! We had a vet in our area of FL who is very much a reptile vet - Margaret Wiseman - she contributes alot to articles for reptile magazine...they had MBD issues hense the shells never grew right! It has been 5 years that have been labors of love, due to the flattening if they flip over they cannot right themselves and therefore we watch them constatntly to make sure there are no accidents...knock on wood none yet, and hopefully we won't ever have any!

We have made the enclosure anit-flip proof as much as we can. Around all sides of the enclosure we have strips of wood the run the length and are high enough off the ground so that is they "spy" something interesting they want to chase up a wall they can't...this has really helped with them getting into any trouble.

So being in the Carolinas yourself, if we make probably a peat moss, soil, leave pile they should be fine in there? I mean, do the turts necessarily have to burrom under the earth to insulate them selves form the cold or will as pile such as you suggest do the same thing? This is our first winter here and believe me we would much rather leave them out than take the risk of the fridge hibernation...

Any additinal input you have would be great.

Thanks
Malinda

Hi Malinda,
I was just wondering about the risk of refrigerated hibernation. I would think that due to the unpredictability of outside conditions (versus the inherent predictability of a controlled environment) coupled with the fact that wild turtles do not always survive hibernation, refrigerated hibernation would be the less risky approach. I am just wondering what your thoughts are on this.
Best.

I hit the send button on lst e-mail too soon. My neighbor took some photos for us...I attached them to the last e-mail but here they are again just in case anyone misses the other "link"

Thanks Again,
Malinda

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