Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hear play sand being recommended so that's what I'm going with, kinda. I wanted to use white sand so I'm assuming by play sand you mean silica sand. If that's the case, can I use white silica sand from Home Depot? I would sift and then wash out the dust sized particles.

On a different note, of my three new dragons, one didn't seem to like being in the cage so I stuck my finger in there and he just climbed on. Right now he's perched on my perch. It seems like bearded dragons really are easy to tame.

no, you dont want to use silica. that is much worse if ingested then just normal sand...

also if you are talking about a substrate for babies (under 6months) you should be sticking to paper as a substrate. not to say you would have a problem, but if sand is ingested for a young dragon it can lead to much bigger problems then older/adults
-----
Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

like said if its jsut a young dragon under 10-12 inches stick to papertowels or butcher paper as a substrate, sand can cause impaction in small dragons, it can cause it in large dragons also, but if you must use it, washed childrens playsand is the way to go, make sure you sift out all the large peices.

>>no, you dont want to use silica. that is much worse if ingested then just normal sand...
>>
>>also if you are talking about a substrate for babies (under 6months) you should be sticking to paper as a substrate. not to say you would have a problem, but if sand is ingested for a young dragon it can lead to much bigger problems then older/adults
>>-----
>>Chris/Mike
>> L&R Reptiles
-----
reiko
photos

Oh the sand is for the future. Right now I am using paper towels. It makes clean up way easier. I have the babies in their temporary home while I work out their permanent home. I plan on using sand and having a jade plant in there that's to be rotated out so they don't die.

I was just wondering regarding the sand because I aquascape my planted aquarium with the play sand, which I'm pretty sure is silica based. My reef and seahorse tank I use aragonite which is calcium based. Is the play sand really a different material than silica?

I keep my babies on children's playsand.... Paper towels till they are 2 - 3 weeks old and then onto sand.

No problems yet (Knock on wood)

>>like said if its jsut a young dragon under 10-12 inches stick to papertowels or butcher paper as a substrate, sand can cause impaction in small dragons, it can cause it in large dragons also, but if you must use it, washed childrens playsand is the way to go, make sure you sift out all the large peices.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>no, you dont want to use silica. that is much worse if ingested then just normal sand...
>>>>
>>>>also if you are talking about a substrate for babies (under 6months) you should be sticking to paper as a substrate. not to say you would have a problem, but if sand is ingested for a young dragon it can lead to much bigger problems then older/adults
>>>>-----
>>>>Chris/Mike
>>>> L&R Reptiles
>>-----
>>reiko
>> photos
>>
-----
Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?

so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
-----
Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

I sure hope that wasn't a comment made for me.... Some people (like myself) could get offended by someone telling them that they are doing wrong. Especially when they have had 99.9% hatch and survival rates, etc.
A baby dragon could eat a piece of torn paper towel as easily as it could get impacted on sand. Nobody has a "fool proof" way of breeding, hatching and raising dragons. Even mother nature couldn't make it fool proof. As to baby proofing a house, I am very familiar with that also since I have 3 children under 9 years of age. Also, you can't say "under 6 months of age should be housed on paper towels" because some dragons are huge at 6 months old.
You ask "why suggest it" well, simple..... some people want a more natural looking habitat for their dragons. Better to suggest playsand than have a customer go out and buy some of those horrible "repti type sands" on the market.

On a side note.... On my site I do list "other" suitable substrates also.

On your site it says you won't have any breeding projects till spring 2004.... feel free to make comments on how I or others do things AFTER you have bred, hatched, raised and sold at least a half dozen clutches or so.

Just my rant in my defence since I am entitled to it!

Look, healthy babies on sand!

>>Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?
>>
>>so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
>>-----
>>Chris/Mike
>> L&R Reptiles

-----
Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

its the one with the juvi dragon that had his intestines flushed out and came out with tons of sand, cant beleive that much sand came from that baby, the baby was still healthy i beleive and didnt show signs of impaction. i think we have to remember that dragons lick, and even tho we may not have an impaction today, or tomorrow, sand can build up in the intestines and cause impaction later, almost the same deal as with horses that are in a place with a lot of sand, sand colic due to build up of daily eating etc on sand. i have to disagree when you say a baby could just as easily get impacted from towels, babies can lick towels as they naturally do with their surroundings and not pick up anything, on the other hand naturally in an enclosure of sand they will take some in every time they flick their little tongues on the ground, and i have yet to see any of my dragons try and eat papertowels, although im sure there has been the odd one that tried and in that case would have to be changed off that substrate. Sand has been shown to build up in the intestines, lining them and eventually sort of starving the dragon of nutrients from their food as they cannot absorb it through the intestinal lining that has the sand present. Sure they may be on some sand in the wild but a 4x2 enclosure is not their natural habitat and beardies in the wild have a much shorter lifespan and i imagine a lower hatchling survival rate due to many factors. I am in no way saying what you are doing is wrong, many people raise their dragons on sand, many people keep their dragons on sand,and taht is perfectly fine, no one can tell you its wrong, its a personal choice and preference, but people need be aware of the potential problems either now or in the long run from the use of that particular substrate.

>>I sure hope that wasn't a comment made for me.... Some people (like myself) could get offended by someone telling them that they are doing wrong. Especially when they have had 99.9% hatch and survival rates, etc.
>>A baby dragon could eat a piece of torn paper towel as easily as it could get impacted on sand. Nobody has a "fool proof" way of breeding, hatching and raising dragons. Even mother nature couldn't make it fool proof. As to baby proofing a house, I am very familiar with that also since I have 3 children under 9 years of age. Also, you can't say "under 6 months of age should be housed on paper towels" because some dragons are huge at 6 months old.
>>You ask "why suggest it" well, simple..... some people want a more natural looking habitat for their dragons. Better to suggest playsand than have a customer go out and buy some of those horrible "repti type sands" on the market.
>>
>>On a side note.... On my site I do list "other" suitable substrates also.
>>
>>On your site it says you won't have any breeding projects till spring 2004.... feel free to make comments on how I or others do things AFTER you have bred, hatched, raised and sold at least a half dozen clutches or so.
>>
>>
>>Just my rant in my defence since I am entitled to it!
>>
>>Look, healthy babies on sand!
>>
>>
>>>>Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?
>>>>
>>>>so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
>>>>-----
>>>>Chris/Mike
>>>> L&R Reptiles
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Lisa
>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>
>>
-----
reiko
photos

Just for the sake of discussion.

Sand itself is not toxic and normally if something is not digestible it will pass through an animal's system and come right now. That is exactly the reason why I keep sand in my african clawed frog's aquarium, it is much easier to pass.

Going on this logic, perhaps I dragon that has a build-up of sand in its system is not getting adequate nutrition? Is that a possibility?

Also, what makes silica and the reptile sands bad?

just because something isnt toxic doest mean it will pass through their system, things like sand will build up in an animals system, thats why it causes impactions and problems in some animals other then dragons also, some as large as 14-1500 pounds as oppose to a little dragon weighing in at less then a pound. I am uncertian if a lack of nutrition has much to do with it, i do know my vet has seen a lot of adult dragons come into his office that were loaded with sand, some make it after expensive surgery, some dont, these arent dragons that were eating the sand in mouthfuls, just those that casually licked it like dragons do to their surroundings.

i think silica has sharp edges, why its not advised. Its like glass i beleive.

i have an african frog, his name is Muppet (looks like a muppet), arent they great?!

>>Just for the sake of discussion.
>>
>>Sand itself is not toxic and normally if something is not digestible it will pass through an animal's system and come right now. That is exactly the reason why I keep sand in my african clawed frog's aquarium, it is much easier to pass.
>>
>>Going on this logic, perhaps I dragon that has a build-up of sand in its system is not getting adequate nutrition? Is that a possibility?
>>
>>Also, what makes silica and the reptile sands bad?
-----
reiko
photos

What I was saying Reiko is that dragons like to scratch and dig... lets say they tore the paper towels while scratching around and then it is feeding time and at the same time as pouncing on and eating the cricket they get a piece of paper towel that was laying there. No matter how small that piece was, this could also cause impaction. I have seen a group of babies tear up a piece of paper towel before just digging and scratching around.
I wasn't saying one was better than the other when it came to impaction.....
My point was.. nobody has perfected it and I took offence to someone saying I give bad advice, which is basically what that post hinted at. I am always open to advice etc, but only from people that have a "working knowledge" of breeding, hatching and raising, not just from books.

The ONLY 100% safe substrate is no substrate at all

>>its the one with the juvi dragon that had his intestines flushed out and came out with tons of sand, cant beleive that much sand came from that baby, the baby was still healthy i beleive and didnt show signs of impaction. i think we have to remember that dragons lick, and even tho we may not have an impaction today, or tomorrow, sand can build up in the intestines and cause impaction later, almost the same deal as with horses that are in a place with a lot of sand, sand colic due to build up of daily eating etc on sand. i have to disagree when you say a baby could just as easily get impacted from towels, babies can lick towels as they naturally do with their surroundings and not pick up anything, on the other hand naturally in an enclosure of sand they will take some in every time they flick their little tongues on the ground, and i have yet to see any of my dragons try and eat papertowels, although im sure there has been the odd one that tried and in that case would have to be changed off that substrate. Sand has been shown to build up in the intestines, lining them and eventually sort of starving the dragon of nutrients from their food as they cannot absorb it through the intestinal lining that has the sand present. Sure they may be on some sand in the wild but a 4x2 enclosure is not their natural habitat and beardies in the wild have a much shorter lifespan and i imagine a lower hatchling survival rate due to many factors. I am in no way saying what you are doing is wrong, many people raise their dragons on sand, many people keep their dragons on sand,and taht is perfectly fine, no one can tell you its wrong, its a personal choice and preference, but people need be aware of the potential problems either now or in the long run from the use of that particular substrate.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I sure hope that wasn't a comment made for me.... Some people (like myself) could get offended by someone telling them that they are doing wrong. Especially when they have had 99.9% hatch and survival rates, etc.
>>>>A baby dragon could eat a piece of torn paper towel as easily as it could get impacted on sand. Nobody has a "fool proof" way of breeding, hatching and raising dragons. Even mother nature couldn't make it fool proof. As to baby proofing a house, I am very familiar with that also since I have 3 children under 9 years of age. Also, you can't say "under 6 months of age should be housed on paper towels" because some dragons are huge at 6 months old.
>>>>You ask "why suggest it" well, simple..... some people want a more natural looking habitat for their dragons. Better to suggest playsand than have a customer go out and buy some of those horrible "repti type sands" on the market.
>>>>
>>>>On a side note.... On my site I do list "other" suitable substrates also.
>>>>
>>>>On your site it says you won't have any breeding projects till spring 2004.... feel free to make comments on how I or others do things AFTER you have bred, hatched, raised and sold at least a half dozen clutches or so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Just my rant in my defence since I am entitled to it!
>>>>
>>>>Look, healthy babies on sand!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Chris/Mike
>>>>>> L&R Reptiles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>Lisa
>>>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>-----
>>reiko
>> photos
>>
-----
Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

>>What I was saying Reiko is that dragons like to scratch and dig... lets say they tore the paper towels while scratching around and then it is feeding time and at the same time as pouncing on and eating the cricket they get a piece of paper towel that was laying there. No matter how small that piece was, this could also cause impaction. I have seen a group of babies tear up a piece of paper towel before just digging and scratching around.
>>I wasn't saying one was better than the other when it came to impaction.....
>>My point was.. nobody has perfected it and I took offence to someone saying I give bad advice, which is basically what that post hinted at. I am always open to advice etc, but only from people that have a "working knowledge" of breeding, hatching and raising, not just from books.
>>
>>The ONLY 100% safe substrate is no substrate at all
>>
>>
>>
>>>>its the one with the juvi dragon that had his intestines flushed out and came out with tons of sand, cant beleive that much sand came from that baby, the baby was still healthy i beleive and didnt show signs of impaction. i think we have to remember that dragons lick, and even tho we may not have an impaction today, or tomorrow, sand can build up in the intestines and cause impaction later, almost the same deal as with horses that are in a place with a lot of sand, sand colic due to build up of daily eating etc on sand. i have to disagree when you say a baby could just as easily get impacted from towels, babies can lick towels as they naturally do with their surroundings and not pick up anything, on the other hand naturally in an enclosure of sand they will take some in every time they flick their little tongues on the ground, and i have yet to see any of my dragons try and eat papertowels, although im sure there has been the odd one that tried and in that case would have to be changed off that substrate. Sand has been shown to build up in the intestines, lining them and eventually sort of starving the dragon of nutrients from their food as they cannot absorb it through the intestinal lining that has the sand present. Sure they may be on some sand in the wild but a 4x2 enclosure is not their natural habitat and beardies in the wild have a much shorter lifespan and i imagine a lower hatchling survival rate due to many factors. I am in no way saying what you are doing is wrong, many people raise their dragons on sand, many people keep their dragons on sand,and taht is perfectly fine, no one can tell you its wrong, its a personal choice and preference, but people need be aware of the potential problems either now or in the long run from the use of that particular substrate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>I sure hope that wasn't a comment made for me.... Some people (like myself) could get offended by someone telling them that they are doing wrong. Especially when they have had 99.9% hatch and survival rates, etc.
>>>>>>A baby dragon could eat a piece of torn paper towel as easily as it could get impacted on sand. Nobody has a "fool proof" way of breeding, hatching and raising dragons. Even mother nature couldn't make it fool proof. As to baby proofing a house, I am very familiar with that also since I have 3 children under 9 years of age. Also, you can't say "under 6 months of age should be housed on paper towels" because some dragons are huge at 6 months old.
>>>>>>You ask "why suggest it" well, simple..... some people want a more natural looking habitat for their dragons. Better to suggest playsand than have a customer go out and buy some of those horrible "repti type sands" on the market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On a side note.... On my site I do list "other" suitable substrates also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On your site it says you won't have any breeding projects till spring 2004.... feel free to make comments on how I or others do things AFTER you have bred, hatched, raised and sold at least a half dozen clutches or so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Just my rant in my defence since I am entitled to it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Look, healthy babies on sand!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>Chris/Mike
>>>>>>>> L&R Reptiles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Lisa
>>>>>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>reiko
>>>> photos
>>>>
>>-----
>>Lisa
>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>
>>
-----
reiko
photos

Glad you do, because I was starting to feel like the "red headed stepchild" of the forum LOL

>>>>What I was saying Reiko is that dragons like to scratch and dig... lets say they tore the paper towels while scratching around and then it is feeding time and at the same time as pouncing on and eating the cricket they get a piece of paper towel that was laying there. No matter how small that piece was, this could also cause impaction. I have seen a group of babies tear up a piece of paper towel before just digging and scratching around.
>>>>I wasn't saying one was better than the other when it came to impaction.....
>>>>My point was.. nobody has perfected it and I took offence to someone saying I give bad advice, which is basically what that post hinted at. I am always open to advice etc, but only from people that have a "working knowledge" of breeding, hatching and raising, not just from books.
>>>>
>>>>The ONLY 100% safe substrate is no substrate at all
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>its the one with the juvi dragon that had his intestines flushed out and came out with tons of sand, cant beleive that much sand came from that baby, the baby was still healthy i beleive and didnt show signs of impaction. i think we have to remember that dragons lick, and even tho we may not have an impaction today, or tomorrow, sand can build up in the intestines and cause impaction later, almost the same deal as with horses that are in a place with a lot of sand, sand colic due to build up of daily eating etc on sand. i have to disagree when you say a baby could just as easily get impacted from towels, babies can lick towels as they naturally do with their surroundings and not pick up anything, on the other hand naturally in an enclosure of sand they will take some in every time they flick their little tongues on the ground, and i have yet to see any of my dragons try and eat papertowels, although im sure there has been the odd one that tried and in that case would have to be changed off that substrate. Sand has been shown to build up in the intestines, lining them and eventually sort of starving the dragon of nutrients from their food as they cannot absorb it through the intestinal lining that has the sand present. Sure they may be on some sand in the wild but a 4x2 enclosure is not their natural habitat and beardies in the wild have a much shorter lifespan and i imagine a lower hatchling survival rate due to many factors. I am in no way saying what you are doing is wrong, many people raise their dragons on sand, many people keep their dragons on sand,and taht is perfectly fine, no one can tell you its wrong, its a personal choice and preference, but people need be aware of the potential problems either now or in the long run from the use of that particular substrate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I sure hope that wasn't a comment made for me.... Some people (like myself) could get offended by someone telling them that they are doing wrong. Especially when they have had 99.9% hatch and survival rates, etc.
>>>>>>>>A baby dragon could eat a piece of torn paper towel as easily as it could get impacted on sand. Nobody has a "fool proof" way of breeding, hatching and raising dragons. Even mother nature couldn't make it fool proof. As to baby proofing a house, I am very familiar with that also since I have 3 children under 9 years of age. Also, you can't say "under 6 months of age should be housed on paper towels" because some dragons are huge at 6 months old.
>>>>>>>>You ask "why suggest it" well, simple..... some people want a more natural looking habitat for their dragons. Better to suggest playsand than have a customer go out and buy some of those horrible "repti type sands" on the market.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On a side note.... On my site I do list "other" suitable substrates also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On your site it says you won't have any breeding projects till spring 2004.... feel free to make comments on how I or others do things AFTER you have bred, hatched, raised and sold at least a half dozen clutches or so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just my rant in my defence since I am entitled to it!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Look, healthy babies on sand!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>Chris/Mike
>>>>>>>>>> L&R Reptiles
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>Lisa
>>>>>>>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>reiko
>>>>>> photos
>>>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>Lisa
>>>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>-----
>>reiko
>> photos
>>
-----
Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

>>Glad you do, because I was starting to feel like the "red headed stepchild" of the forum LOL
>>
>>
>>>>>>What I was saying Reiko is that dragons like to scratch and dig... lets say they tore the paper towels while scratching around and then it is feeding time and at the same time as pouncing on and eating the cricket they get a piece of paper towel that was laying there. No matter how small that piece was, this could also cause impaction. I have seen a group of babies tear up a piece of paper towel before just digging and scratching around.
>>>>>>I wasn't saying one was better than the other when it came to impaction.....
>>>>>>My point was.. nobody has perfected it and I took offence to someone saying I give bad advice, which is basically what that post hinted at. I am always open to advice etc, but only from people that have a "working knowledge" of breeding, hatching and raising, not just from books.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The ONLY 100% safe substrate is no substrate at all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>its the one with the juvi dragon that had his intestines flushed out and came out with tons of sand, cant beleive that much sand came from that baby, the baby was still healthy i beleive and didnt show signs of impaction. i think we have to remember that dragons lick, and even tho we may not have an impaction today, or tomorrow, sand can build up in the intestines and cause impaction later, almost the same deal as with horses that are in a place with a lot of sand, sand colic due to build up of daily eating etc on sand. i have to disagree when you say a baby could just as easily get impacted from towels, babies can lick towels as they naturally do with their surroundings and not pick up anything, on the other hand naturally in an enclosure of sand they will take some in every time they flick their little tongues on the ground, and i have yet to see any of my dragons try and eat papertowels, although im sure there has been the odd one that tried and in that case would have to be changed off that substrate. Sand has been shown to build up in the intestines, lining them and eventually sort of starving the dragon of nutrients from their food as they cannot absorb it through the intestinal lining that has the sand present. Sure they may be on some sand in the wild but a 4x2 enclosure is not their natural habitat and beardies in the wild have a much shorter lifespan and i imagine a lower hatchling survival rate due to many factors. I am in no way saying what you are doing is wrong, many people raise their dragons on sand, many people keep their dragons on sand,and taht is perfectly fine, no one can tell you its wrong, its a personal choice and preference, but people need be aware of the potential problems either now or in the long run from the use of that particular substrate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I sure hope that wasn't a comment made for me.... Some people (like myself) could get offended by someone telling them that they are doing wrong. Especially when they have had 99.9% hatch and survival rates, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>A baby dragon could eat a piece of torn paper towel as easily as it could get impacted on sand. Nobody has a "fool proof" way of breeding, hatching and raising dragons. Even mother nature couldn't make it fool proof. As to baby proofing a house, I am very familiar with that also since I have 3 children under 9 years of age. Also, you can't say "under 6 months of age should be housed on paper towels" because some dragons are huge at 6 months old.
>>>>>>>>>>You ask "why suggest it" well, simple..... some people want a more natural looking habitat for their dragons. Better to suggest playsand than have a customer go out and buy some of those horrible "repti type sands" on the market.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On a side note.... On my site I do list "other" suitable substrates also.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On your site it says you won't have any breeding projects till spring 2004.... feel free to make comments on how I or others do things AFTER you have bred, hatched, raised and sold at least a half dozen clutches or so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Just my rant in my defence since I am entitled to it!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Look, healthy babies on sand!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Not saying you will always have them problems, but the possibilty is much greater. im as happy as you are that you have never had a problem with it..but why suggest it to a new keeper when the chance is there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>so basically yea, you can keep your baby on sand..a lot do, many with never a problem..but just like when you baby proof a house, many of it is extra, but its done just in case. it may not be that commen, but it has happened, otherweise it wouldnt be suggested not 2.. good luck with your dragons
>>>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>Chris/Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>> L&R Reptiles
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>Lisa
>>>>>>>>>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>reiko
>>>>>>>> photos
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Lisa
>>>>>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>reiko
>>>> photos
>>>>
>>-----
>>Lisa
>>www.beginnersbasics.com
>>
>>
-----
reiko
photos

dont remember saying i have or havent bred before. so dont comment on what you dont know.

no my post was not directed at you, but it was a RE to yours.

can a baby be kept on sand? yes
is there a greater chance of ingesting sand? yes
is there a greater chance of impaction? yes

youve had success, and im glad you have. but simply why not suggest what is without a doubt the safest way to house a dragon, unless you went with no substrate to someone that has a young/baby dragon. personally, no matter what i did, i would suggest the safest, especially being a breeder, the last thing i would want is for there animal to get sick or worse because of something i said is ok.

i wasnt attacking you, or looking for an argument, theres obviously going to be different opinions and methods, and whatever works best for you is fine. but i personally have heard too many stories about baby dragons being sick or worse because there owners thought it would be ok to keep there baby dragon on sand. and when i have a chance to help someone to avoid having them go thru that, im going to take it
-----
Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

well it wasnt directed towards you, but it was RE to your post. im glad youve had success, and goodluck in the future.. but i have also seen a lot of things on your site that are missing useful info, and some that just isnt correct.

so you can assume i never had bred, you can claim anything you want. but what i share is what i have learned thru my experiences, my research and people that house and breed more dragons then many of us could handle or afford. the info i have shared, and will share is always in the best intrest of the BD and the keeper alike, and never something that i dont know about first hand.. you keep your dragons on sand, and congrats with any success you have. but i will never give information out that could possibly cause more harm then good
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

np
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

I sincerely suggest using Repcal sand for your beardie... the prices could range from anywhere of about $7 to $12 dollars per bag depending where you buy it at, but if play silica sand is what you can afford then go for it! Believe me Bearded Dragons are probably the tamest creaures 2 have ever existed in life, they are so sweet... Good Luck with your beardies
Sincerely Mark,
EliteDragonRep

and i suggest not to use any manuf reptile sand.. a few reasons

any calci sand is no good period
and all different kind of reptile sands i have seen say digestable, which is just a lie.

Any reptile sand is no better then playsand that you can buy 50lbs of it for about 4 dollars..the reptile sand is about 7 dollars for a 5lb bag.

there are no advantages to using those specialized sands, regardless of what the packaging say. and do not use silica, due to what its made from, and generally if its made from silica it will say so..if it doesnt it is generally made from crushed/ground rocks/stone/pebbles..which is why when you sift you may find a few smaller pebbles
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

If your Beardies are babies, I would use paper towels instead on sand.
Paper towels are safer for babies, and you can use play sand when they get bigger.

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-Lauren

~ Lauren's Lizards ~

groups.yahoo.com/group/LaurensLizards

Personally I feel that everyone does what works for them. Innovation comes from deviating from the norm. That's assuming that there's common sense involved. For me, I plan on using paper towels because they're in quarantine and will be so for at least three months. After that, depending on their size, they will be moved.

Based on BegginersBasics posts and involvment on the boards, I have absolutely no doubt that she would only do what is best for her animals.

As for sand, my question was regarding whether or not common play sand is silica sand. I know in the "fishworld", play sand IS silica sand, unless you happen to live in the east coast and maybe midwest, than you have access to something called Southdown play sand which is an calcium based aragonite sand aka oolitic sand.

make sure what you buy contains no silica, home depot carries it, childrens washed playsand its called i beleive, i dont use it so im giving you the best info that i have..

>>Personally I feel that everyone does what works for them. Innovation comes from deviating from the norm. That's assuming that there's common sense involved. For me, I plan on using paper towels because they're in quarantine and will be so for at least three months. After that, depending on their size, they will be moved.
>>
>>Based on BegginersBasics posts and involvment on the boards, I have absolutely no doubt that she would only do what is best for her animals.
>>
>>As for sand, my question was regarding whether or not common play sand is silica sand. I know in the "fishworld", play sand IS silica sand, unless you happen to live in the east coast and maybe midwest, than you have access to something called Southdown play sand which is an calcium based aragonite sand aka oolitic sand.
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reiko
photos

Playsand is almost always silica, calcium based sands are more expensive. read this page for some good accurate info.
SAND

that dont contain silica, so i have been told.. thanks for the info, i dont use the stuff, so im not certian...
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reiko
photos

I'm pretty certain the only playsand that is not silica based in SouthDown. If you live on the eastcoast, you can buy it for the same price as any of the other playsand. It is extra fine, considered "sugar grade" in the aquarium industry so you get the idea. I am positive it's calcium carbonate as I've been searching for it on the Northwest, but it's not available.

thats the stuff im speaking of, here is the info on it.......

Product Name:
SouthDown or YardRIght Tropical Play Sand From The Carribean

Manufactured by:
SouthDown/Yard Right

Available at:
Selected Home Depot Stores

Silica-free
Labelled as 'silica free', SouthDown Tropical Sand is well sought after by aquariasts as it is one of the few 'silica free' playsands sourced in the Carribean. The 'silica free' status relates to the silica dust which is often found in play sand sold within Hardware Stores and Toy stores.

Silica dust can cause damage to lungs if inhaled. Studies have shown thatlong term damage can lead to cancer, and that the impurities in many of the 'mined' playsands are not safe for aquariums or crabitats. As Marie Davis found when she researched, many of the playsands available in the US are actually mined and contain silicates, lime and other impurities that you would not want in your crabarium.
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reiko
photos

A man and his son were walking through the market one day. The young lad swallowed a coin and started choking. No one knew what to do. He was thrashing around on the floor. A well dressed woman that was sitting having her morning coffee near by heard the commotion. she set her coffee down on it's saucer, folded her paper and set it down and walked over to where the boy was thrashing around. She grabbed him by his testicles and slowly pulled them. Finaly the boy coughed up the quarter which she caught in her hand. She gave the quarter back to the man, got up and went back to her coffee. after the man checked that his son was ok he walked over to the woman and asked if she was a doctor.

No she replied, she was with the IRS
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com