Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What are people’s thoughts on winter cooling for Diamonds?

I have done the 3mth "big chill" last year with mix success?

What are you all doing? I want my Diamonds to live long and be health! Any advice welcome....

And what about boelen's, does anyone think they need a cooling from hatchling yearly as well??

i would like to hear about your last year mixed success...did you follow stan chiras methods?????i have a couple young diamonds and plan to cool them in november ..hopefully we get some good advice here...billy

I cooled 8 yearling diamonds last year following the Stan C method, 4 had problems, 2 had had marked neurological signs and two had respiratory infections, I ended up with two dying despite my best efforts, hence I am very worried about what to do this year, all eight where perfect before the cooling! what do you do? do you think they need a slight bit of heat during the day?? Any advice welcome....

This migth help you abit.
http://74.220.207.106/~moreliap/forums/showthread.php?t=16659

Having never worked w/ Diamonds, IMO, Chiras seemed to forget about microhabitats and the Diamond Python's utilization of UV rays. In the wild, they don't curl up in a ball at 50 degrees for 3 months. These snakes are constantly thermoregulating.

Ross states in Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas:
"....winter temperatures in the range of 45F - 50F as a NTL and 65F-70F as DTH's. Field transmitter studies in diamond pythons demonstrated...these snakes emerge from hiding....to bask.... In an ambient temperature of 65F, diamond pythons were able to elevate their body temperature to 91F by basking..."

I have a hard time getting from this credible research to the Stan Chiras method. Consider this statement on basking and then take into account the fact that when temps do drop to 50F or below, the snake that's just spent several hours elevating it's body temp retreats to a burrow, log, etc. which has a higher, more stable temp than the ambient temp, and it spends the night there conserving that precious body heat.

I've been considering aquiring some diamonds, and have been doing some sporadic research on their husbandry. I've read Chiras' method as well as as much info I could find (both on-line and anecdotally). I am not an expert, but this isn't the first time I've heard of seriously bad results from using this method.

It also puzzles me that I never see him offering them for sale. Considering his love for the species and the confidence he seems to have in his methods, I would have expected them listed with some of the other animals I've seen him selling in the past. I have also noticed that the last time I looked for this information, it was unavailable on-line (perhaps I looked in the wrong place).

This is in no way an attack on Stan Chiras...I simply question the idea of hibernating boids, as well as the number of bad results I've heard of using this method. I would also like to spark a little debate on the topic. Has anyone had good results w/ diamond pythons using Stan Chiras' method? The more information and accounts, the more knowledge to be gained!
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

hi mike...this would be an interesting topic and one that i as well as others could benefit from...my diamonds are just one year old...male and female from michael beach in or...nice snakes...there doing fine i have them in 28"deep x4'long x4'high cages with lots of branches,a basking site,hide spots,i even put curtains on the front of the cages for less distractions...so they can choose from about 85 to 90 on the branches that attach to the basking lights cover... to between 55to 60F on the bottom and lower branches...it's been a long time since i posted pic's on kingsnake ..i have to update my account and then i will post pic's....the way diamonds raise thier temps under uv is something..i know the whole uv topic is controversial but maybe diamonds could use some uv durring cooling times to help make calcium...anyway,...i'm reaching out to any diamond breeder i can to get info from and will be glad to pass it on...also uv kills mold so could mold in cooling times have something to do with diamonds getting respiratory illnesses??i haven't been keeping up with much reptile stuff for a few years car acident and got sick so diamonds seemed kind of easy to start out with again...we will see...billy

Never heard about the UV/mold/RI connection, but it sounds feasible. My only thought contrary is that RI's are typically bacterial, so the mold would most likely only be a catalyst.

I assume your basking sites are set up full spectrum, but have you ever considered natural sunlight? It would be interesting to compare results w/ full spectrum lighting vs. natural unfiltered sunlight.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

I have personally seen diamonds here in south florida that are kept outside during the winter basking at 8am when ambient temps are in the 40s. The breeder that has these animals has consistently produced for the last 3 years by keeping them this way. This breeder has also never lost one diamond or had one become sick when keeping them outside for their winter cooling. It's amazing to see pythons breeding when it's in the 50's and if you touch them they are warm.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

heres a breeders method i just got info on................"daytime basking temps at 85f for 6 to 8 hours...night lows (no basking heat)55 to 65...dropping temps over a couple months."....i also have to wonder about humidity change...as far as the uv thing goes..i have heard people use uv light to control mold growth in some high humidity indoor reptile cages..i have no uv light in my diamond cages...i also live in a very cold climate..durring the summer my indoor house temps are lows of maybe lows of mid 60s..and in the winter house lows of 55or a little less...right now lows are about 62 and the diamonds spend most of their time at about 76 to 84.. i check them with my heat gun...billy

A friend of mine hipped me to this.....go out w/ a temp gun in mid-winter....get a reading on a black car on any sunny day. These same healthy snakes breeding at 50F would not IMO be the same snakes if left in a garage at that temp for 3 months.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

you are absolutely correct. Their dark coloration and natural light are keys to keeping them that cool. I think someone would have to be crazy to place any boid at those temps without giving them access to bask as they would naturally.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

ever used the Stan Chiras method of hibernation with either neutral or positive results. I'd be interested to hear someone with a different take on this. Yes, I'm an information addict!
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

n/p
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

My best friends, sister's, brothers, boyfriends' girlfriend knows the guy who is going with the kid that saw Ferris pass out at 31 flavors.
I guess it is pretty serious.

Sorry Mike, couldn't help myself.
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Ben Team
Mark Davis
New Paradigm Herpetoculture
Captive Bred Morelia
404-438-2135
chondro776@yahoo.com

N/P
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin