Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I only produce one of these every year or two but they are really interesting looking. It's a het hypo with vanishing pattern traits. This one just hatched today. Randy W.

This vanishing pattern hypo just hatched out of the same clutch as the het today. Randy W.

Crazy! That het hypo looks like a hypo itself! The real hypo is definitely a smoker too
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globalreptiles.ca

incredible animal! So when do I get to do some hondo shopping???
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Peyton Hale
Knoblochi & Hondurans

Hey Randy,

You can call it a Vanishing Tangerine Dream. I thought it was a Hypo, as well.

Very cool,

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

very cool indeed...I have never seen that in a het before.
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Peyton Hale
Knoblochi & Hondurans

I gotta agree with you on that. I've seen very few het hypos with black bands that are thin like that!

Tim

Third Eye

Very cool!........

Randy, I would really consider that animal as being a "hypo".

Because of the fact that the melanin of the PATTERN itself is so greatly deminished. It doesn't necessarily have to have the melanin PIGMENT within the melanophore(melanocyte)reduced to constitute a hypo as in many Honurans.

Just as many other "hypo" species of snake that have a greatly reduced patterning leaving VERY dark markings, but the AMOUNT of PATTERN is greatly reduced. Realistically, a hypo snake can be an animal having greatly reduced dark pattern, and/or melanin content. A good example would be hypo corns,hypo Red Milks,etc..........I know you're very knowledgeable with snakes, so I think you'll understand what I mean.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Wouldn’t that snake still be called a “Hypo”?

Hypo meaning reduced, low, below, or insufficient amounts of melanin.

It may have the same intensencity of black pigment, as a normal, but it does have reduced amounts of black. Let’s go back 5 years, and then look at that snake again…don’t you think it would have been called a Hypo then?

I’m not trying to contradict your identification, because I do agree with you…but the Hypo gene is extremely variable. In other words, the Hypos of today/yesterday could be just very clean normals, and the Extremes of today are the true Hypos?

I guess it all comes down to “shades of grey”.

Great looking snake sir!

-RG

Yeah,.......I agree

Basically the exact things I mentioned in my above post.

I think it fits the "hypo" template well!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

In the hobby hypo hondurans result from a condition that is inheritable in a simple recessive fashion from a single gene. "Reduced black" is the term that's generally used to describe snakes that are the result of complex multiple genes. These genes can become somewhat "locked in" through selective breeding but they are not really predictable in the same way that simple recessives are. While it may technically be abnormal I think reduced black is still considered part of the natural range of colors found in the wild.

>>In the hobby hypo hondurans result from a condition that is inheritable in a simple recessive fashion from a single gene. "Reduced black" is the term that's generally used to describe snakes that are the result of complex multiple genes. These genes can become somewhat "locked in" through selective breeding but they are not really predictable in the same way that simple recessives are. While it may technically be abnormal I think reduced black is still considered part of the natural range of colors found in the wild.

I'm gonna cast my vote with Aaron on this one.

Doug, i think if you check you'll see that both species of hypos you cite as examples DO have reduced INTENSITY (or lighter) black but DON'T necessarily have reduced COVERAGE of black-pigmented areas--in other words, the areas that should be black aren't, but are something less, and that--less--is exactly what the "hypo" in hypomelanistic means. Black is black, pretty much, and it's pretty obvious when those rings are a color that's not jet black. Anyway, given the variability of band width in so many lampropeltis, i've always thought the hypo/anery/amel etc were talking about changes in the color and not in the area that should be a particular color. Here's a question: would a patternless (all red) milk snake be considered an amel? It might have no black rings at all. My answer would be no.

imho, pattern variations aren't what we're talking about with hypos, any more than we would call an animal "hypoerythistic" if its red rings were narrower than usual, but still bright red.

peace
terry

the snake being a hypo or not I think it's a very tricky call. By the defination of hypo it could be considered a hypo due to it's very reduced black but I think it's too risky a call to "officially" consider it a hypo. As you all know hondurans vary greatly as far as how much solid or jet black they show. If a honduran doesn't have at least a very dark grey or silver color instead of the jet black that we all consider as the true visual hypo trait I dont think it's safe to consider one a hypo unless proven through breeding. Thank's for the input. Randy W.

very cool het hypo Randy, you must have eggs hatching every couple hours over there!
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Jon Wedow
Sharp Dressed Snakes

Thanks Jon. I do have a lot of hypos hatching with a lot more to go. Actually I think I'll have too many before it's over. lol Randy

That is beautiful snake for a normal tangerine but that honestly looks like a hypo at least from the pic. I am the king of producing ugly and even my babies that had minimal tipping would darking alot during the first year. Just wondering if the hypo gene in your snake is co-dominant.

Either way nice snake...what ever you call it.

Scoot Sweeney
Sweeney's Serpents

Randy, I guess you could say that it was hypo since hypo means reduced black but in hondurans I would say that it was a vanishing het. Don