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I posted this in the Elapidae forum but wanted to post here as well incase someone that doesn't frequent that forum has any ideas.

I just wanted to post about this because it strikes me as odd. From all the Australian herpers I've spoken with and read accounts from, Oxyuranus, or at least the coastals and their New Guinea cousins, are supposed to be pretty easy to breed. So what I'm wondering is why are there just now babies being produced? I know that O. s. canni is still relatively rare in US collections, but more and more elapids are being brought in from PNG and I would have thought that by now there would have at least been a few clutches. So far, taipans are the first (disclaimer, RC from VenomStreet reminded me that there was recently a clutch of eastern browns being offered). I've never heard of anyone producing brownsnakes or blacksnakes, though I'm not entirely familiar with the specific difficulties in breeding them. I was told by the person that recently produced the canni that another well-known herper has been trying but has had no luck so far. So who knows, maybe it's just easy for the Aussies and hard for us. I'd imagine that we will start seeing more and more of the Aussie-like elapids being bred here, especially with the announcement of this first clutch. I can only hope so anyway, as I'd hate to see for PNG's or IJ's fauna be completely decimated by the herp trade. Anyway, I'd appreciate some others' thoughts on this, especially if you yourself keep these species and/or have been trying to breed them.
River Valley Snakes

My first thought (often incorrect, mind you) is that it may have something to do with the differences in hemispheres. Breeding season over there would be roughly six calendar months different than here.

~~Greg~~

so who is going to provide antivenom for this little project?

>>so who is going to provide antivenom for this little project?

That's also a very good question. With more abundance of these very dangerous snakes comes more chances for bites. I've been told that there is a polyvalent made that covers at least the vast majority of Aussie snakes, taipans, brownsnakes, and blacksnakes all included, or at least their relatives in PNG. I've also been told that the cost of this AV is fairly outrageous at right around 2k per ampule. This might be unsubstantiated as I'm just going off heresay. However, with snakes like taipans who are mostly neurotoxic, if you can get yourself on a respirator quick enough you may be able to pass the venom's effects with only mild bodily consequences...that is, if they can keep your kidney's functioning. Probably though with more abundance of these snakes, more and more people and insitutions will be keeping their own supplies.
-Chance

1) According to thier web site, Miami Dade Fire Rescue stocks both the Australian polyvalent and a specific taipan antivenom. Outside south Florida, I don't know.

2) My understanding is that unlike mambas, taipan venom can do lots of nasty and irreversable damage if antivenom isn't given fairly soon after a bite. (I'm sure BGF could elaborate a bit.)
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Larry D. Fishel
Side effects may include paralysis
and death but are generally mild.

>>2) My understanding is that unlike mambas, taipan venom can do lots of nasty and irreversable damage if antivenom isn't given fairly soon after a bite. (I'm sure BGF could elaborate a bit.)

Yeah, I remember reading something he typed recently talking about taipan venom doing a number on your bloodwork. That's why I put in that disclaimer about kidney functions being a big concern. I'm sure there would be other problems but kidney failure would kill ya as fast as any other, lol. Anyway, thanks for pointing that out. I didn't mean for my post to sound quite that lax. In other words, DON'T GET BITTEN BY A TAIPAN
-Chance

>>>>2) My understanding is that unlike mambas, taipan venom can do lots of nasty and irreversable damage if antivenom isn't given fairly soon after a bite. (I'm sure BGF could elaborate a bit.)
>>

Hi all,

Since you're interested in the consequences of taipan envenoming, here again is the link is to a recently published paper on Papuan taipan bites in PNG:

Williams D, Bal B (2003) Papuan taipan (Oxyuranus scutellatus canni) envenomation in rural Papua New Guinea. Annals of the Australasian College of Tropical Medicine (July) 4(1):6-9

The file is 0.97Mb but for those keeping these snakes, or interested in snakebite it is well worth reading (not that I'm biased...)

I would also hasten to mention that a US keeper who experiences a similar delay in the administration of appropriate antivenom may face similar prospects...

Cheers

David

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David Williams
PNG Snake Venom Research Project
PO Box 168
Port Moresby, NCD, PNG.

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>>My first thought (often incorrect, mind you) is that it may have something to do with the differences in hemispheres. Breeding season over there would be roughly six calendar months different than here.
>>
>> ~~Greg~~

That may have something to do with it, but we do breed chondros and especially carpets with relative ease and abundance. I spoke with the owner of Crocafeller about the canni he produced and he said they voluntarily bred early spring...which would be early fall for them in their home territory. So who knows. I know that if I were going to attempt to breed them I'd focus most of my effort on their natural state, cycling them in summer, breeding in fall and producing in winter. But hey, whenever they want to breed is fine by me, lol!
-Chance

Hi all,

I have caught pairs of mating Papuan taipans in Papua New Guinea in June and July (the southern hemisphere winter), and have had captive animals continue mating through August. I have also had anecdotal reports from local villagers of having found clutches of eggs with small snakes inside them as early in the year as June, and certainly coastal taipans from Cooktown in Australia have been know to mate as early as late April or early May (Autumn down here).

I have had a number of female taipans "double-clutch" in successive years - the second clutch is often produced without further mating, and the sizes of the clutch and the eggs themselves are not dissimilar to the first clutch produced.

Eggs are laid approximately 7-8 weeks after successful mating, and at 29-31 Celcius the incubation period is approximately 56-64 days. Clutch sizes range from 14-23 and average SVL at birth is 360-400 millimetres.

Captive animals can be kept together all year round and will still breed successfully provided the female is in prime condition.

Cheers

David
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David Williams
PNG Snake Venom Research Project
PO Box 168
Port Moresby, NCD, PNG.

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