Reptile & Amphibian Forums

any of youse guyz heard of one of these confiscated in jersey????

Confiscated!? I'd like to hear the story behind that.

reako45

me too, it was found in the pine barrens and then some how who ever had it got "popped" by LE.....i don't know any more...but i do remember a posting of a patternless northern pine quite a while ago...

I posted a question concerning patternless Northern Pines a while back. I purchase a "Leucistic" Northern Pine (Actually what I believe to be an albino patternless Northern Pine) from a couple at a swap meet in IL. They said they had been producing patternless northerns for around 10 years or so. The female that they originally used to produce the patternless is 14 years old. They also showed me a book containing a picture of a Patternless Northern. I don't remember the title of the book but it was on Pituophis, Possibly, Gophers, Pines, and Bulls or something like that. It published in the mid 90s if I remembe correctly. I also located an article in the January 1995 issue of Reptiles Magazine. The article "Patternless Northern Pine Snakes: A First?" was written by Michael Ray. The article discusses the history and also shows pictures. I have since picked up an adult male het patternless from the same breeders. They also have an adult proven pair of patternless as well as a few yearling patternless babies currently for sale. I have no reason to discount their claims that these are pure northerns, based upon the information I have found and the information given to me by the breeders. If anyone would like to see pics of the two snakes I have please feel free to contact me. At this time, I have not done scale counts on the snakes but plan to in the future. Just wanted to add what I have found out about these guys. I also had heard about the confiscation, but know no details.

Take care,
Jeff Port

Is it possible, to share some pics with us ?

thx

Here are a couple of the female amel patternless. I don't have any of the het patternless male yet. Will try to get some tonight. Enjoy.

Take care,
Jeff Port

this was a normal colored morph that was taken from the environment...and the individual talked to the wrong guys....i remember seeing posts with pics last year on some forum....not here...i believe the animal itself has been placed in a private breeding facility....why i dunno...if its true...

hmm when i bought a pair of "patternless northerns" as the seller stated and i bought it with knowing that my pines are southern not northern but now it has me wondering. here are a pic of one of my pine. it's an old pic from last year but they are like 5 feet now. let me know what you think. i'm sure they are southern. thanks.

I think it would be almost impossible to tell a pattenless Northern from a patternless Southern unless you did scale counts, etc.

well i was thinking that i'll just wait and breed them two and see what i get from this pair and i might know if they were southerns if the hatchlings come out as patternless and blotches. most of us can tell if they are northern or southern from a blotches patterns ya know?

tell......you just can..

i don't think scale counts are consistently different between northerns and mugitus.in many cases i would say the easiest way to tell-if any-is simply coloration and blotch pattern.but even this is 'pretty sketchy',and hell we're talkin' about patternless snakes here so without proof of locale,you're on totally shaky ground.i can say i've seen a lot more patternless pines being sold as mugitus,and not northerns-and i also know patternless florida pines do pop up in the wild with regularity;not so with northerns.
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

It was confiscated in Lakehurst NJ
Its now in the collection of a private breeder
It was bred to the normal female that was confiscated with it
the female had 7 eggs all of them hatched patternless.
This info comes from an ex NJ FG&W employee

that's the story i heard.....how did LE find it???....just curious...how the guy got caught.....of course other northern pine morphs could become suspect....without a time line that makes them pre-act captives....also, are the snakes now magically legal to market???...if so why???....aren't they the result of illegal animals???....just some ???? re confiscated animals and goods......

In the possession of a private breeder? New Jersey authorities confiscate from one individual only to allow another private person to possess the animal? Hmmmmmm...I guess it's who you know, not wjhat you know.

my point....its like those products from endangered species confiscated...and then auctioned by the feds...its not like a car or house or items bought with ill-gotten gains....these are actual products of endangered species that become "POOF" magically legal...yo ,once you get that paper work other avenues begin to open ....if you choose...courtesy of good old FF&W

What should be done with confiscated animals? Should they be released and take a chance with contaminating the wild population? Should they be disposed of? Should they be kept by FG&W? Should they be given or sold to accomplished breeders or keepers? What does everyone think?

They should be donated to me! Or to learning institutes for live display and/or afterwords given to the biology or museum collections. If they don't want them, I don't see why they aren't labeled with as much info as possible and put on the market. If it is an endangered or threatened or protected species, put into a captive breeding program used to restock suitable areas where they once thrived and were extirpated.
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Todd Hughes