Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi

I have a new question. Our sick male redtail has been passing a substance I thought was just a urine/urate combination, but I just wanted to make sure. It's much more yellow and more like a flat plaque, and a lot harder to clean up, than regular urates which are whiter and somewhat "fluffier". I also thought that he was having problems pooping as the other morning he had only passed a small ball; later last night he had a more regular defecation (he ate a RodentPro xxxl guinea pig a week ago Monday). When the females were still with him, I had thought that these excretions were the sperm plugs I remembered reading about here. He's alone now. He's also the one that was diagnosed IBD by a CBC scan. Is it just urates? Or is it something else, and if so, any guesses? Should I be worried that his kidneys are having issues? I plan on asking the vet tomorrow anyway, but I thought I'd seek some insight here.

Thank you for your time,
Antigone

I'm shaking my head as I read this. If this snake was diagnosed with IBD it should be quarantined. Your females are most likely exposed and will have this disease as well. Any babies will have a poor chance at survival, and if they do, should absolutely not be sold or given away as it only spreads this untreatable disease to other homes.

With all this said, I recall the IBD diagnoses being questionable in my mind at least. Lets hope I'm right on this one. Either way though, don't be breeding sick animals; and put your resources into corraling any health issues with your existing stock first.

Ian

Hi:

We weren't intentionally breeding, though that chance does always exist with having males and females in together. We had better control over the temperature this time, and it never dropped for any length of time. The two females at least had come to us as a rescue together. Do snakes bond at all? They seemed happier all hanging out together--though it could also be because the enclosure was much bigger...
Also are red-tails one of the species that retain sperm? Once we get this all sorted out, I really don't want to go through all this again, even though everyone now has their own enclosure again (girls in tanks, boy in the closet)

I am still being told that the remaining babies from our last accidental clutch are doing fine, no respiratory illnesses, and are eating like pigs, with none of the IBD signs. They were born Feb 2007. All 21 were born live, no slugs. Is this any indication that the IBD diagnosis was wrong? None of the adults are showing signs. Rock and a hard place--we don't have money for invasive diagnoses/treatments and the idea that we would have to destroy two clutches is hearbreaking.

Doing the best we can,
Antigone

Like I said before, I have doubted this diagnoses. The well off babies likely means IBD isn't in the picture, but not enough is known about the disease to say for sure. My babies contacted the disease after birth, and died quickly with only 2 exceptions whom remain in lifelong quarantine with me.

Some possibilities with your litters (assuming the diagnoses was correct, which is the safe assumption on a biohazardous standpoint).
1) Dad has has IBD, mom was lucky and didn't get it, thus babies are clear.
2) Dad has IBD and gave it to mom. Mom has a resistence to it, and is thus a carrier of the disease.
2a)Mom then passes the disease, and her resisitence to her offspring. This means your offspring are carriers and will pass the disease to others, and likely be time bomb's for themselves to die.
2b)Mom did not pass the disease to the babies, thus they are clear.
2c)Mom passes the disease to some of the offspring, while others may or may not get it from siblings if seperated immediately after birth.

Unfortunately all scenerios are possible, and on the basis that the IBD diagnoses is correct. It is the only responsible choice to properly represent your animals to any buyers/adopters. They should ideally be single snake owners, or at least not have any desires for any other boids. In any case a 1 year quarantine period should be followed. I'd suggest following up with buyers for your own sake as well. If after one year, no offspring have shown symptoms or have been diagnosed with IBD, then you have support that the offspring are clear of the disease. This in turn supports that your female(s) are clear, which then supports the male is clear as well. Each level of support is weaker than the first, simply from a statistical point of view.

If, at any time your male passes on, or you choose euthanasia due to his chronic problems, then definately invest all that you can to have a proper diagnoses for IBD. It'll put at ease your mind, and the 20-40 owners of all the babies.

Ian