Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been into boas for about two years or so, and purchased an anery het albino, an albino, and a possible triple het. All about a year to a year and a half old, I was pretty much looking to get sunglows and snows. What I want to know is, is it basically too late to be breeding for such animals? With all the wonderful morphs and different breeds of snakes coming out the price of sunglows and snows have dropped dramatically in the last two years. I know that I'm going to get responses saying "you should only breed for what you like" and "don't plan to get rich off breeding" I know all this, but seriously, nobody breeds snakes to keep all the babies as pets, you breed to sell the offspring. With the snakes I'm shooting for, do you think they will all sell or will I be stuck with too many babies to properly care for? It doesn't really matter what the price goes down to, I'm really not looking to get rich off this, I just don't want to get to the point where everyone has what I'm trying to produce and nothing sells. Looking forward to input. Thanks.

Prices fall because there are more choices, it is not a decrease in demand. There is still a lot of demand for the morphs you will produce, on the visual basis: Albinos, Anerys, Hypos, Sunglows, Ghosts, Snows, and Moonglows. Odds are, depending on the number of babies and the resulting stats of the litters, you will probably sell the litters for enough money to regain the expense of your boas that you bought as babies.

The demand for many morphs that are dropping is increasing if you look at the number of people buying. As prices drop, demand goes up. Supply shifts up to keep that demand, and prices find a balancing point in the market.

With the growing number of options available for someone wanting to by a morph, the price comes down because a buyer has more choices. When constrained with fewer choices they have to pay a premium to obtain what they want. As the number of choices increase premiums will still exist for certain options, but old premiums will not last.

Pretend for a moment that the boa market is fixed year to year and only X dollars come in each year. Before X dollars would buy fewer animals, but with more boas available the same X dollars is divided up among many more animals.

I hope I did an adequate job of explaining this.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Hey Cyn,

I don't think you're wasting your time in trying to produce sunglows and snows. Despite the drop in prices for albinos, sunglows, and snows, I think there will always be a market for such animals, especially when you consider that there will hopefully be people new to the hobby who want to get into these "common" morphs.

I personally had a surprise litter of albinos, sunglows, and possible super sunglows this year, and I had a fairly easy time selling off the animals I wanted to sell (the albinos and one of the possible super sunglows), albeit at wholesale or discounted prices which was just fine with me. Like you said, this is definitely not a "get rich" hobby/business, but it is nice to be able to have your hobby pay for itself. Just advertise in the right places (i.e, KS Classifieds) or go to local reptile shops that might be interested in buying your boa offspring (but just be prepared to sell them at wholesale prices to these reptile stores). Me personally, I don't have time to sell to individuals via the Classifieds, so I really don't mind selling wholesale to reptile stores because this saves me ALOT of time and still puts a little money in my pocket.

Also, keep in mind that you don't always have to "sell" everything. You can also try trades for other morphs or locales you want to get into. Plus, when you produce sunglows and/or snows, would you really mind holding onto to an extra sunglow or snow that doesn't sell right off the bat? I know I really don't mind holding onto an extra sunglow or two.

Bottomline, I don't think you'll have problems selling or getting rid any offspring you produce that you want to move out. Just be patient, and don't forget to consider how much effort and time you want to put into selling your offspring.

On a side note, I'm still working on a snow project that's been 6 years in the making. And I still probably won't get any snows until at least 2 years from now. Even if the price in snows drops to "nothing" by then, I really won't care because the culmination and realization of producing a snow or moonglow will be priceless in my book. Just my $0.02.

Good luck with your breeding projects. And so I don't ignore the cliche, "breed what you like" and have FUN.

All the best,

Jay

Just kidding!!!!

Most of us would purchase morphs regardless of how much they drop over time because they enhance the quality of our lives. Animals just have a unique way of doing that for some reason. Having said that I really wish breeders had access to information that shows percentage drops for specific morphs over a given period of time so they might be able to predict within reason the price drop of other morphs in a given period of time. For example I knew when I purchased an albino ball python for $2,000 in 04' that the price would drop a certain percentage per year until I produced my own this year, Which I'm totally cool with. I also knew that since I'm not an established breeder that I might get 20%-40% less for my offspring than what some of the established breeders were asking which I'm also totally cool with. The point is I knew this information ahead of time so it never bothered me, but I'm one of those guys who was around when the only way to get prices for offspring was from a price sheet that were sent through the mail. I've followed the price of certain morphs such as Albino boas from $10,000 in 93' to where they are at now. That information combined with dozens of other recessive/dominant/co dominant morphs and their respective percentage price drops over the years was used to forecast other newer morphs. Now I know it's not that simple. There are many other factors that effect price drops other than just time. Keep in mind that boas can have a few dozen babies. It's also not a bad idea to consider combining two or more morphs to hold or stabilize offspring values over the long run. I've also noticed that most local specific boas don't follow the same rules for price fluctuations.

I'm a small time breeder with limited knowledge , but I really don't expect major breeders to chime in with specifics for obvious reasons. I'm also being very careful not to be too specific and get my post deleted. I hope this is some help to you.. if not just send me a pm and I'll try to help a bit more with the little that I do know.

Chris

I just realized that I didn't answer your question very well. You should have no problem selling these morphs. They are still and will continue to be in demand despite the price fluctuations.

Here is a big insider secret... take quality photographs. You would be surprised at how many people take a blurry silhouette of a snake in a dirty cage and expect you to throw down good money for it. Other than that find good places to advertise, and be willing to accept fair offers while you build a reputation. And above all else be honest with customers and they will always come back for more. Integrity is worth it's weight in gold in the reptile business.

I believe you'll still have to raise the animals to maturity,then get them to successfully breed,then . . . .
Focus on the important details of quality longterm care for your animals and not the worth of the skin on their backs.
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TnK

Cyn -

Being a 20 year veteran of the reptile commuity, I continue to be a student of the market in this "hobby industry". As such, I would like to share a few of my learnings.

1) Chris nailed what is currently happening in the "boa" market ... "prices fall because there are more choices, it is not a decrease in demand". This is probably the single most important point to understand. This simple piece of knowledge will guide you in all your current boa decisions, especially what animals to work with and how to price them on the open market.

2) I still advocate the basic economics of "supply and demand", but it took me all summer to understand how "too many choices" comes into play. I like to focus on supply, not demand. Supply is what it is, while demand is created by a bunch of marketing hype (not my game).

3) Still focusing on "supply", I work almost exclusively with "recessive" genes. This is where supply will always lag that of dominant and co-dominate genes. It is a slower-moving market and will last much longer, both in continued demand and stable prices.

4) EVERYTHING SALES! I sell everything I advertise at my asking price ... babies and adults ... NO Trades. It oftentimes takes a while (even up to 2 years). New successful breeders expect their babies to "fly out the door", and when they don't, they become fustrated and reduce their prices. The same patience that you need to raise up your boas to breeding maturity must be applied to selling on the open market. Sales is an entire subject to itself, but just remember that to make a sale, you need the right animal at the right price and the right buyer that wants that animal and has the money at the time you are selling, and both these pieces have to come together at the right time. This is why you see my same classified ads reposted ... this is the only way I can control the "timing" piece of the equation. Case in point ... I may run the same ad for 2 months without any interest, and then at 2 months and 1 day, 3 buyers come out of nowhere and the boas are sold.

I need to go do some animal care. Hope this helps.

Bill

Bill, well said. I hope all the new boa "ballers" read this and let it sink in. Eventually EVERYTHING sells, if not today then down the road when the animal is bigger and you can sell it for MORE money! Hmmmm I think it was in volumn I of my reasons for having a sale. Reason #6 (I don't like taking care of baby boas.)Might be part of the problem. Produce them, take care of them and someone will buy your babies or yearlings/sub-adults. Volumn III of reasons to have a sale will be out shortly. Titled: When the Pimps become Whores. look for it in paperback.
Gotta go! taking infield practice for low-ballers. GO YANKEES!

You will have no problem selling a sunglow or snow. You just may not get what you want out of them. You could also sell pos hets for the same price as a normal, and people will buy. You can also sell your whole clutch at wholesale.

alright well you guys have pretty much set my mind at ease for now, I know I have PLENTY of time to consider what I'm going to do when the time comes. Thank you all for your input...I love this site.

One more thought. Buy the best breeding stock you possibly can afford because a beautiful 'whatever it is' will always sell better, faster, and for more money than an average one, and you'll never be sorry you have really beautiful snakes either.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

Those top of the line specimens do make the difference for me also. It is a joy to have them in your collection and people will want babies from those stand out beauties.

Sharp Sunglow

Pastel Sharp Albino

Enjoy your animals!
Marcus