Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I have a Blackthroat that is about 20 pounds. My question has to do with handling. I don't want to make a pet of him, and I've left him un-pestered until now. What I want to do is get him to let me handle him enough to get to the vet's without him going crazy.

So until now I've kept my hands off him because I didn't want to stress him. My hope is that now he is an adolescent, and is able to take some handling stress without having it affect his physiology.

Some of you remember he has a room of his own to roam, on two levels; the floor and 6 feet up. It never gets below 85 in there. I think he's hunting now, because I hear him knockning round in there sometimes.

When i feed him, I just quickly lay the mice in front of him. He nose hisses only a little at this. But now at different times I've added gently holding his left front leg for 10 seconds, stroking his back for 10 seconds, hold hid rear left leg for 10 seconds, and hold the base of his tail for 20 seconds. I towel over his tail to keep it from slap-breaking.

He nose-hisses terribly at all this, which is ok with me, and bends his snout down to my fingers on his leg. I'm afraid he's going to finally suddenly bite me. His body and jaw shape make me afraid to be bitten by him. I bet he could break a finger easily, or take an end off.

Is there an intermediate bite-threat display before he bites? This question is the main reason I wrote this post.

Roger

Thank you

> > > Is there an intermediate bite-threat display before he bites?

Yeah, he will open his mouth as he lunges for you. When you see this happenin', let go of his leg, quick, 'cause he's ticked.

I don't have any experience with BTs, my experience is limited to niles & savs. However, I believe all monitors have pretty much the same agression/defensive behavior, for the most part.

If threatened from a distance I believe they hiss & attempt to tail-whip & biting is a last resort. If they feel threatened in close proximity (like when being touched) most will attempt to bite without any warning signs.

If you're able to touch your BT like that, it's obvious he doesn't like it but he is being somewhat tolerant by not biting. My male sav will hiss when I touch it, but as long as I move slowly, I can get my hand underneath it & pick it up without it biting me. But if I move too fast, "NIP!"

I suggest spending a little more time with it each day. You don't have to touch it the whole time, just sitting around it, letting it get used to you more will help.

Keep in mind my lack of experience & wait for someone with more experience to confirm or dispute what I just said. I don't want to mislead you.

Have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Hi HH, I get the feeling you have this ALL and I mean ALL wrong.

First, monitors have very poor near-sight. So, like a dog, they confirm what they see by smell. You put a hand to a dog, to confirm what(who) you are. Same for monitors.

That hissing thing is more about doubt, they do not know what you are. YET! let them smell you first and behaviors can be totally different.

Of course, tramatized monitors will bite and for good reason, they have been rendered (up to) insane. You task as a keeper is to reorganize their behaviors back to something normal.

A longterm captive raised animal like this one, is most likely unsure of what is going on, so tell it.

Of course it could only be my monitors that cannot see still determine still objects up close. But hey, they are dang good and moving objects up close. They tend to bite them and determine what they are later. Cheers

> > > First, monitors have very poor near-sight. So, like a dog, they confirm what they see by smell. You put a hand to a dog, to confirm what(who) you are. Same for monitors.

Heh, I only stick out my hand towards friendly & unsure dogs, not barking, snarling or growling dogs. Ha! Ha! I've got a dog & a nile that would just LOVE for someone to offer them their hand. "Yum, yum!!!"

I think me & you are talking about the same thing but different things. I was talking about monitors' behavior displays and I think you're talking about what causes those behavior displays.

If a monitor hisses when you're up close due to it's doubt about who/what you are, I take that as it's feeling threatened, which is all I was trying to say.

As soon as I can find my last quart of moonshine I'll run throw my hand in my sav & nile's faces to test your statement about smell. Ha! Ha! I know what my nile will say, "Smell?! Ha, I smell blood! CHOMP!!!" I could see it working with my sav, though. It makes sense. I'm just not in too much of a hurry to pet it & when it hisses, ask it if it's in doubt or pissed, and then stick my hand out and say "Show me." 20 - 25 years ago I'd a done it without blinkin' an eye, but not now. Ha! Ha!

But seriously, though, your post was enlightening and you know I'm not trying to be a smart ---. Maybe you went too long without posting and I subconsciously thought I was the new "know-it-all." Hahahahaha!!!!

Catch ya later!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Hi HH(again) Your responce of, "they bite" is not all that accurate. There are many many behaviors that if YOU understood them, you can manipulate your monitor to do what you want it to(be tame is one of them).

The point is, you, those trying to tame monitors, must understand what the monitor is. I mean, really is.

To learn that is the talent I speak of. Of course like in any area, some have natural talent, and some cannot be taught. Then there are the vast majority that must learn.

So to learn starts with some physical abilities that monitors have. Lacking keen eyesight up close is something most do not understand. They have keen eyesight for movement. But it appears it ends there. Again, this is only up close and seriously, thats were your hands are in danger. Cheers

Dang if you ain't got good timing. I just finished re-reading your other post, looking for something I might've missed and then you post another one. Ha! Ha!

OK, Teach, I'm sitting at my desk with paper ready & pencil in hand.

> > > Lacking keen eyesight up close is something most do not understand. They have keen eyesight for movement. But it appears it ends there.

Kinda like the T-Rex is portrayed in Jurassic Park? Interesting, I can see your point in connection with the original poster (Roger) holding his monitor's leg & the hissing not being aggressive or defensive. Can we call it anxiety?

> > > Your responce of, "they bite" is not all that accurate.

You're right, I agree. I was tryin' to be funny and somewhat truthful. I was lookin' at it from a different perspective than you were. I was jokingly lookin' at it from the eyes of a goofball keeper taking your words extremely literally. (Don't even think about tryin' to make the connection between a goofball keeper and me. Hahahaha!!!)

I believe the point you were making is that a monitor can come to recognize it's keeper by scent and it's up to the keeper to learn to capitalize on that. Use it to comfort, train, etc... Is that right?

Take care!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I try to give clear signals to my animals. For instance if i am going to pull a reptile from an enclosure I give a que. I will tap them on the body once with a snake hook then remove the reptile as carfully as possable but a tap with the hook is ALWAYS followed up with the same removal system. I am consistant so my animals know what to expect. The TAP lets them know Oh I am being moved. They know what to expect and they get a moment to prepair.

That being said I know they are all individuals and some will arm themselves for action, most seem to key in on routine.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Boy are you in for a treat. While that works with snakes(no offense, snakes are a bit slow) A healthy balanced monitor, knows what your going to do, by your actions. They will know if their being fed, by how you open the door, or what your carrying etc, even before you come into the room. They know when foods for them, as opposed to another cage. They know by looking in your eyes.

I get the feeling, they know your patterns, BETTER THEN YOU DO. hahahahahahahahaha. That is, once you keep them successfully. I guess thats one difinition of being kept successfully. Cheers

By the way I have found a group of Black Water monitors, nine I think. The heat pump is going in soon. I am putting in a large sand box for them to dig in and a good sized pool. I will be asking advise as I go. I will set the temps and basking to what is recomended by you. And I understand what you are talking about.

I have a wild plain bellied water snake that comes to my house and eats out of my hand. I thawed out some mahi mahi the other day and it took it from me. Totaly wild snake! My wife called me from the house and asked why there was a snake looking in the window. Then she explained it looked in all the windows! Even was able to climb up and look in the kitchen window.

I explained it was looking for me! LOL
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I know this is off topic, but your snake story reminded me of something that happened when I was seven or eight years old. I only got to see the end result, which was not a pretty sight. But the story as my father told it was that he came home late from work one night and upon entering the house saw an eastern milk snake actually looking over my mothers shoulder, watching the TV with her . She didn't know it was there till my dad started smackin' on it. This thing was about five feet long. I wished he hadn't killed it but he thought it was goin' after mom .

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Dang! I'm jealous. You tell a better tale than I do. Ha! Ha!

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

This all ties into husbandry and understanding the natural world. The snake in question would steal toads from my daughters outside cage as I always had to re-supply her toad cage. My daughter inadvertently set up a feeding station for this snake. Instead of reacting like 99.99999% of the human population we took this as an opportunity to study something and learn from it.

The cage was 1 inch mesh and the snake could go through the mesh and the toads could not. The snake figured out how to exit the cage with a toad inside. The snake was seen often, very often and one day he decided to coil up on the turf next to the continuous drip pond. The snake was used to me not bothering it so I was a part of its world.

I proceeded to thaw out the only fish I had in the freezer, Mahi Mahi and cut it into strips. I went outside and offered the snake a piece that I held in my fingers it flicked it’s tongue once or twice and slowly opened its mouth and chewed the fish down (ocean fish)! The next day guess who was back looking for a handout, yes a wild snake and again Mahi Mahi.

My daughter no longer keeps frogs in her outside cage and I have not seen my friend in a while. I think this ties into the (Training by force thread) as trust seems to achieve the same results.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Hi,
My BT is the same as yours i think, ive had him for 3-4 years now and he lets me walk around him, stroke him from neck to back, under his chin, slightly over his eyes, pick him up for...very short amount of time but nothing is practically impossible.
All this was because i first made him see ME come in to feed him. Now whenever i come in, even to not feed him, he would investigate around me as if "im sure you left something here". Now i just mostly feed hom by hand for more confidence. Then sit in his room reading a book or watching while he crawls over me, sniffs around me, watches me...that really works. A BT's bite is like any monitors...mouth open for 5 seconds then attack! and they leave real damage the bigger they get.
Hope this kinda helps,
Good luck to you and your monitor,
Sheri
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2.0.0 Cats (Garfield, Oddie)
2.2.0 RES (Bowser, Angela, Leo, April)
1.0.0 Varanus Albigularis (Godzilla)
1.1.0 Zonosaurus Quadrilineatus (Yago, Becca)
1.0.0 Python Regius (Kaa)
Sheriyar Bokhari

So they give us five seconds of mouth before they chomp! That's plenty long. He hasn't displayed that to me yet but I bet it's pretty unsubtle, right? Do they hold their head up or straight for an optimal visual threat during the five seconds?

It is my intention to not let him manipulate me by pushing me around with threats. I want to get to know when to back off, without him knowing he gave the cue.

Can an adult BT break a finger? I know big iguanas can't unless it's a freak accident, or unless you are delicate and give a strong one a single finger, and the Iguana does an alligator roll (that's a very rare accident). Their bite is spread out over long rows of jaw, for tearing tough leaves and fruit. The same power in a short, beak-like mouth could probably break a finger or take a piece out by just chomping.

Look, the truth is, I don't very much mind being bitten. I'm willing to take chances. I just don't want re-attachment surgery as the aftermath.

Is their bite strong enough to sever a finger?

Roger