Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any thoughts on using store bought sand as a subtrate at a later date? I used coconut fiber as a subtrate before with beaked moss on the side by his heating pad for hiding before. Now I am fighting mites so he is on paper towels, with a cardboard tube which he loves for a hide. The coconut fibers look an awful lot like mites so I am searching for something that would be better for him and I.

I am going to try and attach a pic of Fluffy so you can see my baby. Thank you for your paitence with a noob!
~k

I don't think sand holds humidity very well, if at all, which your little guy will need for nice complete sheds.
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0.1 Het Pied
1.0 Albino
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0.0.1 Bearded Dragon

Like mentioned, sand does not hold humidity well at all, unless you get it very, very wet...and then your snake's likely to end up with scale rot from being on a wet surface all the time.

You can try aspen shavings, or sanichips, for something that'll be a different color than the mites and still look nice. Do not use bark of any kind (doesn't hold humidity), or pine or cedar of any kind.

Sanichips are pretty great. I've heard a lot of good things about them from friends who've used them. When I get my display cage set up, that's going to be the substrate I use.

Good luck! And keep using that papertowel until you haven't seen mites for WEEKS. Mites are pesky, PESKY little buggers.

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

Sand is a big no no for balls. It gets in their pits and scales and can cause all sorts of problems. Best to go with something else.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

Sand is no good.

Use Cypress or Aspen, do not use sand. That coconut fiber stuff (comes in a block) is alot like sand and I wouldnt use it if I were you either.

Why would you even want to use something that is so tiny and hard to clean in the first place?

Cypress is beautiful and holds humidity really well. You can buy it at a farmor garden center type store. I havent seen it @ the Depot. Wherever you find it, make sure it is untreated. I get a 40lb bag (like a quater of a yard) for $4.00 from Agway. The lady at the Agway told me the local zoo uses the same Cypress for their animlas and in the Reptile enclosures.

God luck.

"That coconut fiber stuff (comes in a block) is alot like sand and I wouldnt use it if I were you either."

I disagree. It isn't as fine as sand and it also isn't in hard granules -- it is soft coconut husk that not only digests completely if eaten with prey (unlike sand that will cause impaction), but it does not get stuck underneath scales, in pits, in nostrils, etc. I used it exclusively for the first years I had my snakes, until I switched to racks. I had tried aspen, Carefresh, cypress, and a few other things -- but the coconut fiber was the best. I never had a problem and I loved using it because it was great with humidity and easy to clean -- spot clean when the animal defecates/urinates, then dump it all out every week, sanitize, and put more in. It never stuck to the inside of the tanks/tubs, just slid right out.

The only reason I stopped using it is that I found loose substrates to be really impractical and a pain in the arse to deal with as my collection grew and I added more and more snakes.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I thought sand was a bad idea too...but the fellow at the pet store where I got Fluffy told me he had his ball and king on sand. I told him I didn't think it was right but he insisted on it. I'm glad I went with my gut and got the coconut stuff. Thanks!

As your experience grows, you'll find that 99.99% of pet store employees do not know squat about the proper care of reptiles. We hear it over and over again on these forums -- it's completely irritating because not all new ball python owners will come to a forum like this to get the REAL info. That's why we all try so hard to guide new people as they come, we want the best experiences for them and the best care for their animals.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Pine is fine for snakes, despite what you hear. Both my ball and blood python live on it all the time. No scale issues, infections, mites or other difficulty. It can be damp without molding or rotting for a very long time. My snakes have clean, one-piece sheds as well. Pine is not the same as cedar, which does have oils that can be irritating to snake skin.

Just a little FYI. Good luck in your choice of substrate!

Pine also has oils, and it has nothing to do with irritating the skin so much as creating a respiratory infection because the vapors are strong right on the surface, where the animal lives. The vast majority of experts don't recommend it for rodents either as they constantly get sick from it. Put your face all the way down into a tank full of fresh pine shavings and breathe the air for 5 minutes without coming out. I bet you'll start coughing. It's very strong -- why would you want your animals living and breathing in that?
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Have you taken a big whiff of aspen or cypress? They all smell pretty strong up close when fresh. That's just the nature of wood. After a few days pine loses all of its aroma. It smells no different than aspen. I have yet to see a respiratory infection from pine, so I'd need to be more convinced there's a clear correlation between pine and RI. But, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if you can send me more information or links. I'd switch...cause I like my snakes as much as you do.

Indeed I have, and that is why I don't use any wood shaving substrates, not even for my ASF rats. I would never want to live in something like that and breathe those fumes 24-7.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Here's a substrate recommendation from John Rossi's (DVM) book, "What's Wrong with My Snake," page 5:

"The substrate is a critical factor in snake maintenance. The most frequently used substrates for most snakes include artificial turf, newspaper, aspen shavings, pine shavings and cypress mulch. Do not use cedar shavings; they contain aromatic compounds that may lead to respiratory problems."

At least in terms of this vet, pine is not a problematic substrate for snakes, but cedar is.

It really does seem to work just fine for me. I'm a woodworker, so I make my own very inexpensively. Another thing I like about pine is that unlike some porous substrates that tend to attract wood louse, pine stays bug-free.

Just my experience...not trying to start feudin.'

Peace

OK, I must come to the defence of the African Fured's . They ARE rodents and rodents NEED to chew, unless of course you're feedin' em off before an overbite becomes a problem.

OK, now that I got that bit o' weird outta me. I have used pine shavings for rodents for years and have never had a problem. That's not to say there ISN'T a risk, just that I haven't witnessed it.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

What does chewing have to do with using wood substrates?
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Jen, I only ment that rats chew, blocks or shavings, with no ill effect that I've seen.

As far as a substrate for snakes I've used pine, with no ill effect, but prefer carpet, newspaper or eco earth.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself