Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a pair of ball pythons that are about 3 or 4 months old, they are eating large mice now. My question is, do you have to switch to rats or can you continue to feed large breeder size mice, just more of them? I raise my own mice and I never have a shortage of big ones, I hate to get into raising rats (actually I love rats and don't think I could bring myself to feed them) If I have to go to rats I guess I just will buy frozen from the local pet store.

Remember, this is just my $.02... You can take it or leave it....

1) The least amount of times my snakes have to suck something down, I figure the better... Can't figure that all the stretching isn't at least a little stressful...

2) If switching, try to stick with patterns... If the mice were white go either all white or mostly white... Rat? What rat? This is just a big mouse... >;-]

3) 'Urban Herp Legend' is that rats are more nutritious.... Though it probably isn't true...sounds good to me....

4) I use all f/t now, and just let them think they are killing them... It's an ego thing for them....

5) If you ever struggle too much with the 'rat thing', be very thankful you chose a BP. Feeding 'Thumper' to your Burmese Python has to suck....

Thanks for the advice, I will feed rats if it means the health of my BPs. I love my BPs! Oh, and on the Burmese thing... that and their size is why I didn't choose one! LOL!

My BP is also a baby yet. about 18" =/-. I have been feeding one mouse every 5 days but tried tow mice at his last feeding and he took both. So, I believe a young BP will eat at least two mice, but now I am trying to find out if I should feed every 7 days since I am feeding more mice each time. Anybody have any thoughts?

Syco,

For instance, my three BP's won't take a medium rat. But they will take a small rat (~ 85 grams). So to compensate, I feed them two small rats, spread a couple days apart. They actually end up eating more gram-wise this way than if I gave them a medium rat once a week. And it seems they digest them much quicker this way.

I've included a link I found to a recent paper done on nutrient composition of prey. I believe one of the on-line rodent suppliers has a link to a similar paper. I'll post that when I find it.
Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey

Sorry the above message was incomplete. It should read--

Syco,

I believe this is going to be a care-giver's preference issue as well as what prey item your BP ends up preferring. You’re fortunate you have your own supply of mice, which is definitely a point in your favor. There are many keepers who feed only mice to their breeder-sized BP's with great results. Obviously, in the case of mice, you will have to provide more mice as the BP grows. But, IMO, your BP may have an easier time digesting the several smaller items than one larger one.

For instance, my three BP's won't take a medium rat. But they will take a small rat (~ 85 grams). So to compensate, I feed them two small rats, spread a couple days apart. They actually end up eating more gram-wise this way than if I gave them a medium rat once a week. And it seems they digest them much quicker this way.

I've included a link I found to a recent paper done on nutrient composition of prey. I believe one of the on-line rodent suppliers has a link to a similar paper. I'll post that when I find it.

From what I am reading, they would actually be getting more protien from several large mice than they would one large rat. Right now they are eating one large breeder mouse every 3 days. They are growing like crazy, they were a little on the thin side when I got them but they are looking good now! No reguritations,pooping about every 2 weeks (does that sound right?) From what I have read the wild BP eats Gerbil type rodents, goes into the burrow, cleans out the inhabitants and then rest there to digest. That is several small meals isn't it? : ) I guess I'll just keep a good watch on them and if they seem to be not gaining enough weight on mice I will switch them to rats. If there is anything I hate is to see an adult BP that hasn't been fed enough and they don't have that wonderful plump BP look to them. Thanks for all the advice, you guys are wonderful.

Yeah, while some may argue that the studies involved only a small number of subjects, I think all things being equal, it will represent the rest of the population. As always, in the end it comes down to which prey your BP prefers and is doing well on.
You're right about wild BP’s, I’ve also read that while they are ambush predators, laying in wait for their prey, they will clean out any rodent burrows they may happen upon. I assume that would mean the babies as well as any juveniles & adults which couldn’t escape.

Sounds like you are on track. Good Luck!!

Two things to consider that I don’t see covered here:

I think it is self-evident that feeding fresh as opposed to previously frozen food over a lifetime is superior nutritionally for your ball python. I’m not saying feeding frozen/thawed food is BAD, just that fresh is better. But without large-scale, long-term feeding trials we’ll never be able to answer that question conclusively. The fact that you have a large supply of live mice, and that you are able to control the diet fed your rodents (something which is always a question mark with any frozen food we purchase elsewhere), are big pluses in your choice of what to feed your snake.

One other thing to take into account, and this has to do with size not species of prey animal - consider the concept of surface to volume ratio. To get the same amount of nutrition in one 200 gram furry animal, you’d have to feed six 30-plus- gram furry animals, and that means more fur per unit nutrition packing into your snake’s gut. Not that lots of fur necessarily spells constipation. As has been noted, in the wild ball pythons may well scoop up whole families of rodents in their burrows. But in captivity, a snake’s activity level is hardly comparable. So just be sure that what goes in, comes out on a reasonably regular basis.

-Joan

I feed fresh-killed for an entirely different reason: the thought of keeping dead rodents in my freezer grosses me out.

I've been raising my own rats instead of mice - mice *stink* to High Heaven, rats don't - and I've got one happy vacuum cleaner and one finicky monster. Bubba the vacuum doesn't care what kind of prey he gets, even slimy rejects from the other one. Frank is more picky and prefers mice. He'll only eat a rat when he's so hungry he's visualizing his cagemate roasted on a plate with one of those little paper thingies on his tail like a Thanksgiving turkey.

I have discovered a *trick* to get Frank to eat the rats: I feed him rat pups the same size as mice. I also scent them - I keep a mouse in the nursery with the suckling mothers and their pups. The mouse is accepted as just another baby by the mothers, and I've even caught it suckling every now and again. The mothers keep it clean, and I haven't noticed any Mouse Stink. It sleeps curled up with the babies and lives quite a happy life. It doesn't realize that it's getting Mouse Scent on the babies so Frank will eat them.

I get a feeling that Frank is on to the deception - he will sniff the scented rat pup and then look at me with what can only be described as a "You've *GOT* to be kidding, right?" expression. Eventually, he gets down to business and eats. The real trick is, once Rat#1 is partway down the hatch, his swallowing reflex has taken over and he is MINE. I put Rat#2's nose on the butt of Rat#1, and Frank will keep swallowing. I can usually get 3 or 4 down him this way before he finally pulls away. The icky leftover goes to Bubba, so there's no waste.

I too breed mice, and I have a pair of bps that I just got my first clutch of eggs from this year. I too didn't want to have to mess with rats and have kept my bps on mice. My female is 4 yrs old and this summer laid a first clutch of 8 eggs! All 8 hatched out healthy on Aug 2 and have all eaten twice but one. Since laying the 8 eggs (all of which weighed 100 or more grams!) my female is back up over 3000g and is doing great and looks like she will have no problem getting back up to weight for this next breeding season. So I see no problems yet in a multiple mouse diet. I usually feed them once a week and she usually eats 5 to 7 good sized mice or up to 10 medium sized mice just depending on what size I have available that week. If you have any other questions let me know.

Benson

I too breed mice, and I have a pair of bps that I just got my first clutch of eggs from this year. I too didn't want to have to mess with rats and have kept my bps on mice. My female is 4 yrs old and this summer laid a first clutch of 8 eggs! All 8 hatched out healthy on Aug 2 and have all eaten twice but one. Since laying the 8 eggs (all of which weighed 100 or more grams!) my female is back up over 3000g and is doing great and looks like she will have no problem getting back up to weight for this next breeding season. So I see no problems yet in a multiple mouse diet. I usually feed them once a week and she usually eats 5 to 7 good sized mice or up to 10 medium sized mice just depending on what size I have available that week. If you have any other questions let me know.

Thanks, you guys are great.