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Does everyone have "habits" for encouraging safe snake behavior?....more...

Laci Aug 22, 2003 04:08 AM

Share them with us!
Here are ours. Just things that we thought MIGHT work, and were easy enough to implement for experimentation. One of the things we do, and I think it is working, to some extent, is that when we feed, we only put the prey in with the snake after we have turned the lights down. Now, this doesn't mean that we are opening the cage of a 15 foot burm in the complete dark, waiting for him to ambush us . We leave a low wattage bulb on in the background, and it gives us enough light to see where the burm is, and etc. I think it is working to the point that our Burms now get "excited" whenever we start to open the doors and the lights are "dark". Conversely, they are mellow when we open them with the lights on, and just want to come out to play (or just look at us, lol).

Of course, during the typing of this, I realized that "training" them to this type of behavior could be a very bad thing if there was ever a power outage and we needed to get them out. But, you win some, you lose some! We will probably have to rethink this behavior :-S

Does anyone else do anything like this?

Marcy

Replies (6)

Antegy Aug 22, 2003 07:35 AM

Marcy,

I understand that snakes don't respond well to long term Pavlovian style conditioning, so I try to keep up with these 'habits' as best I can. Snakes do respond well to short term memory situations, so as long as I maintain these habits I expect I'll continue to get positive results.

Here's a few things I do,

- I never handle food items with my bare hands. I always wear latex gloves when handle their food - this is to keep my scent off their food. I don't want them to have any association whatsoever of "me" with "dinner".

- I also use a lighting 'scheme'. I have a separate light that I only use during feeding. Incidentally, that light is also a dimmer light than the normal ones - though I don't think it actually matters to them (as long as they get their dinner!).

- I only offer food items through the door on one side, while I only access them through the door on the other side. This helps to give them a spatial association with 'dinner time'.

- I try to maintain a strict feeding schedule. Every Sunday. Sunday night to be precise. They actually do seem to anticipate this each week (which makes me question just how long/short their conditioning capabilities are).

- Whenever I access their cages to take them out I blow a couple of short, quick breaths into the cage (not directly onto them, just into the cage in general). My intention is both to alert them with my scent that it is indeed "me" (and not dinner), and also to assess whether they are in the mood for coming out to play (which is usually obvious for anyone who knows their pet well).

To date, I've seen exceptional results as evidenced by the tame disposition, health, and apparent happiness of my snakes. Whether it is any one of the habits I employ or any combination of them, I don't know. But something is working, and well - and I'm glad for it.

Thanks for reading,
- Mark

DandK Aug 22, 2003 09:12 AM

I have feeding doors on my burm cages. They are on the side, separate from the main doors. The snakes camp out by these feeding doors when it's close to feeding time, which is on a strict schedule. They know the food is coming in through there, so when that thing opens, they go crazy. All other doors have little to no effect on their behavior.

I always use a hook to get their attention. They are always a little excited at first when i come in the room, but once that hook touches them, you see a switch flip. They know it's time to come out and there is no food around.

I never reach in their cage without a hook. If this is started when they are small, the reaction to the hook will be stronger when they are older and bigger. Most people think they only need hooks when the snake is bigger, but it's best to start habbits when they are young.

If the snake is on the floor, i always put my hand on it's back somewhere to let it know i'm there and i'm going to pick it up, that way it's not startled when i do.

The best habbit is that i don't ever handle the burms without my wife around. I have not been bitten in over 5 years, and i plan to keep it that way, but just in case, it's always nice to have that second person around to help out. It's also better to have 2 people carry a large snake. i think it's more comfortable for the snake.

There are several more, but i have to work and this post is getting long.

Antegy Aug 22, 2003 09:44 AM

That is - the habit of putting your hand on the snakes back before you pick it up. I hadn't thought of that, though I'm generally careful to be sure not to startle my snakes when I pick them up. I'm going to try that and see how my burm reacts.

Also, I think I might get a hook soon. My burm is already almost nine feet - so he's not really a baby anymore, to say the least. Though I don't have any problems now, it sounds like it's just plain a good idea to use a hook with large constrictors.

Thanks,
- Mark

WildBill Aug 22, 2003 04:16 PM

It seems a lot of us have the same habits. I always put my hand on the back of my snake before I handle him. And I feed through one door, access through a different one, however his new cage (halfway built) will have a special feeding door. I also don't handle him without a second person close, although he is a big baby. One other thing I do is let him start coming out of the cage on his own, rather than reaching in and grabbing him. If he doesn't want to come out, I leave him alone.

brianSmith Aug 22, 2003 04:45 PM

I probably shouldn't post what I do as any suggestion of what necessarily "should be done" when working with burms. I say this only because what I do is coupled with years of experience with reading the burms' body language. It is crucial to be able to do this when working up close and personal with burms. So for anyone that is not familiar with their body language I would suggest ignoring what I do and taking the advice from others concerning using snake hooks.

Now,... I personally do not use hooks,.. even though a own a few, they remain on the wall collecting dust. What I do begins at a young age as I mostly only acquire hatchling pythons to raise and grow with. I develop close relationships with them from early on. When they are little I touch and rub and hold them often. If they happen to be hissy I hold them more. When they throw fits I hold them longer until they are over the fit and learning that I am not a threat to them. The main part of this "tough love" technique is to teach them real young that by throwing a fit they do not get their way and "get away". It's really all just conditioning. If they learn they can make me go away by being pissy then they will do this repeatedly every time they don't want to be held. So I break this habit early. Other than this, I get them all used to a pat, a squeeze and a rub as I come through, whether it is to feed them or change their water, clean their cage or just to visit with them. I also always make it a point to make sure they smell me. I get them used to "ME" and my touch and my smell. They get to a point where they almost seem to like the physical contact and are even comforted by it. I frequently will see them wake with mild alarm as I open their cage, only to relax and lay back down as I rub and pat them. As they become big adults my pats and rubs become more hearty and firm. They're bigger and tougher, so they can handle it, and I want them to consider me as a large entity on their level. So I project strength and size to them via a firmer touch.

Now,.. regardless of this hands on familiarity, these are still relatively dumb animals and are still prone to sudden feeding responses triggered by movement. I'm sure everyone has seen this, but they will rush forward to inspect the moving thing, with a curl to their neck, ready to strike. This is always off the ground and up in the air. I back up just enough that my main body is slightly out of their range and I bring a hand up under their chin so as to allow them to smell "me". Once they smell "me" and know it's "me" any thoughts of feeding are forgotten. it's like, "oh,.. it's you,. well I'll go back in here now then." and they usually go back inside and lay back down. Now, sometimes they will see the movement of my hand I am bringing up for them to smell before I reach their tongue. When this happens I wave the other hand up high (and out of reach) in a slow circle and get their focus on that hand and once again bring my lower hand up to where their tongue can contact it. In my opinion, once contact with the tongue is made the majority of any danger from feeding mishaps is over. They're dumb, granted, but inteligent enough to know the difference between you and the food. But they won't usually do this visually. By smell is the only sure fire way to determine that it's "you". Fortunately unlike retics they *usually* smell first, even if briefly, and strike second. Retics are much more dangerous in my opinion because they are prone to strike suddenly and blindly at any movement. They don't usually identify first and are highly unpredictable. Burms usually will identify first and strike second. But always assume they will strike and be ready for it, because it does happen. I actually get bitten more from the burms simply because they are usually so predictable that when it does happen I'm not looking for it. I'm rarely tagged by the tics because I'm ALWAYS looking for it. Go figure, life abounds with ironies.

I hope this somehow helps.

>>Share them with us!
>>Here are ours. Just things that we thought MIGHT work, and were easy enough to implement for experimentation. One of the things we do, and I think it is working, to some extent, is that when we feed, we only put the prey in with the snake after we have turned the lights down. Now, this doesn't mean that we are opening the cage of a 15 foot burm in the complete dark, waiting for him to ambush us . We leave a low wattage bulb on in the background, and it gives us enough light to see where the burm is, and etc. I think it is working to the point that our Burms now get "excited" whenever we start to open the doors and the lights are "dark". Conversely, they are mellow when we open them with the lights on, and just want to come out to play (or just look at us, lol).
>>
>>Of course, during the typing of this, I realized that "training" them to this type of behavior could be a very bad thing if there was ever a power outage and we needed to get them out. But, you win some, you lose some! We will probably have to rethink this behavior :-S
>>
>>Does anyone else do anything like this?
>>
>>Marcy
>>
-----
If 50% of one's enemies are still breathing,... it just means you're doing a half-assed job.

snakeranger Aug 23, 2003 03:15 AM

I never thought I'd see the day when I feared a non-venomous snake. I've only had 10' Bigfoot for a year now, but realize the need to 'condition', and keep, him tame for safety and interpretive programs. I make contact w/ him at least every other day, to reinforce who I am (caregiver, affection-giver, boss). Based on experience w/ other spp, it appears that snakes are conditionable. (eg, coming out of hidebox & looking all around each Saturday--feeding day) However, they are also unpredictable at times...

So for Bigfoot, I feed him only pre-killed food and do so only in the bathtub. This way, he also gets a chance to get out. After his meal, I run warm water in the tub to calm him, then wipe him down to clean off the food germs so I feel comfortable picking him up & carrying him on my shoulder (don't want rodent hair in my hair!)

Since there's no one here but me when my 14-year-old isn't here, I always keep the phone handy. Don't know what I'll do when he gets much bigger, as I only weigh 110! A hook sounds like a good idea--will have to get one.

I'd attach a pic, but how to do that?
SnakeRanger

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