Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently saw an ad for a visual Het Piebald ringer. I'm new to ball pythons (one normal - rescue), and am interested in their genetics....note: this is not an investment question (don't want anyone getting the wrong idea).

Does anyone have any experience w/ ringers or the possibility of them being visual hets for Piebald. I'm sure most here have seen the ad....it was a male represented as a het, but it had a 4" white band/ringer. It was not represented as proven, so the question is this:

How does on differentiate from a "ringer" Het Piebald w/ a 4" white ring and a "low white" Homozygous Piebald w/ a 4" white ring? Assuming the snake is not proven, doesn't it stand to reason that due to the amount of line breeding in this species, this could actually be a true Piebald?

Any thoughts are appreciated.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

"How does on differentiate from a "ringer" Het Piebald w/ a 4" white ring and a "low white" Homozygous Piebald w/ a 4" white ring?"

If the ringer is a WC or CH animal, only line breeding would be able to prove/disprove it as having anything to do with the piebald gene. Visual homozygous pieds are always very obvious, even as low-white animals. Even if there is no white on the top of the body at all, the belly is still always pure white. The pattern is always very squiggly and messed up, as well as much more orange and light than your given normal ball python.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Het for piebald and ringer aren't necessarily the same thing. A ringer just has a "ring" of white near the vent, but the rest of the pattern looks normal. If you can, find a picture of a low-white piebald, and check out that pattern. A piebald's pattern is CRAZY compared to a normal one, which is how you know a low-white piebald from a hi-white ringer.

CB het for piebald means one of the parents was a piebald (making a 100% het), or one or both of the parents were het (50%-66% het). If a ringer pops up in a 50%-66% clutch, most people would choose the ringer over a normal looking baby, in the off chance that it's the het for piebald gene that's causing the ringer. There is NO DEFINATE PROOF of this though - it's more of a superstition than a fact.

Hope that answers your questions!

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

That is very helpful information.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

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You all talk Balls,I talk Royals ;0)
www.alpharoyals.co.uk

Thanks! That's exactly what I was talking about, and a great pic to use to compare with. There's a great high-white ringer down below, too.

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

What if the "Low White Pieds" are actually Medium White Pieds? what if the reduction can be even less, from the white parts of a pied...its bordered by orange wash as a baby, and the orange wash is bordered by a blurry normal colored pattern, what if the pied can be reduced even more...now a belly shot of that low white pied probably shows the "Pied" goig along the belly am I right? what if the ONLY pied area was condensed into one small area, a true LOW low white Pied..???....

A guy can wish can't he ...lol
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

Nothing like that has ever been created, just like pieds can't have white heads. There are specifics within the pied gene that require certain things -- like a white belly, colored head, and messed up pattern.

So far, no ringer has ever proven to be genetic for anything (unless it was a CBB animal from a pied breeding and known to already be a het).
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

The ringer you're talking about is from a piebald x normal breeding, so he is a het pied. I produced him back in 05', here's a baby pic.

Eric

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www.ESReptiles.com

You sure that normal female was not a het pied?

Jennifer

That is not a pied, it has a normal pattern and coloration except for the ring of white. Pieds with low white still have very orange, very messed up patterns. This one is a het.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Pattern...Yes it is true that the pattern is blurry and washed out on low white pieds, but what if those low white pieds are actually "Medium Pieds"...What if it was possible to get even less "Pied" than the lowest white pied, There are spots on some low white pieds where it almost looks normalish, but what if it was even less pied...would more of the pattern be normal?

Ringers have always fascinated me, in that they have orange wash and everything, even seen multiple ringers as well, when they first came onto the scene I swore they where the lowest of the lowest end low pieds...they even where called "Poor mans Pied". The white with Orange wash around the white, and even on some the pattern right in the area where the orange wash starts can sometimes be blured just like a low white pied...

I am not saying Ringers are Pieds, it just fascinates me that something that is SOOOooo close to being a spitting image of a pied...isn't. Ringers are cool none the less...I love them, everyone has to have at least one ringer in thier collection..

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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

I have to say that is a most striking example of a 'ringer' ball python...At first glance I would say it was a low white pied...but the pattern is definitely not right for a pied, even a low white one. Best way to view it is take the two pictures giving in this thread, one of the low white pied and the ringer...you can see there is a huge difference.

The rest of the pattern on the low white pied is crazy swirly and definitely not typically seen with normal ball pythons, even the more crazy ones. Now, the ringer ball python looks like any typical normal ball python, if you just cover the ringer part of the tail. Looks more like somebody got some white paint on their ball python.

I can see why so many potential buyers will think it was a low white ball python...I have not seen a ringer like this one ever before on this site (well other than the breeder's original pic which looks familiar to me). A belly shot probably be a good thing to have to show the difference between a ringer belly and a pied belly.
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PHLdyPayne

This is the low white pied girl I'm paying on -- unmistakable pattern and pure white belly:

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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I never really noticed the amount of difference between a Piebald and normal other than the obvious. This really clears things up...thanks! Even the low-white Piebald's look great!
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin