Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello. I recently found a man who breeds burmese pythons in my area (in B.C. in a city where 2 out of 6 petstores have minimal reptiles and reptile supplies).
Right now I have a 6.5 foot Taiwanese Beauty Snake (Dog) who Ive had for about 5 months and i just got a 3.4-4 foot Black Mexican Kingsnake.
So I think i have a Bit of experience with snakes. I'm very comfortable handling snakes in general. As of yet I havent taken the newest addition out of his cage since cleaned it when i brought him home. Im thinkin he might present a newchallenge to me as he seems rather skittish and apprently hasnt been handled in a long time.
Now, moving forward, since talking to this breeder Ive been seriously flirting with the idea of gettin a Burm. The babies would not be ready until late spring early summer of next year which is perfect. I'mm pretty sure its illegal to breedburms here, which he mentioned to me. When dealing with breeders what should i look for (not that i have a huge selection) He seems like he's quite knowledgeable about snakes, he also breeds ball pythons. In a couple days Im going to have a look at the snakes he has right now and will be breeding, to get a better idea of size, enclosures, feeding, handling, basically everything. Is there anything specific things that i should look for to indicate whether his snakes are healthy and such?
I've been researching the crap out of these big guys on the internet for days, anything and everything i can find, and let me tell you this website is a godsend. either way i still have tons of questions. I understand that getting one of these animals is a long term committment and I want to make sure that not only am I ready for that but also that I can provide for what the animal needs. Any and all advice would greatly help!!!

Hi! Please don't take offense with anything I say or think that I'm against you in any way. I just want to point out a few things to try to help you make the right decision in your case. I'm not trying to be rude, harsh, or anything like that.

You wrote; Right now I have a 6.5 foot Taiwanese Beauty Snake (Dog) who Ive had for about 5 months and i just got a 3.4-4 foot Black Mexican Kingsnake.
So I think i have a Bit of experience with snakes. I'm very comfortable handling snakes in general.

And 2 sentences later wrote; Im thinkin he might present a new challenge to me as he seems rather skittish and apprently hasnt been handled in a long time.

Like I said, I don't mean to be harsh, but, I get the impression that you have a wee bit of experience with friendly, cooperative snakes, only. When you have an 8ft, or 16ft, burmese python hiss at you, it's gonna make your heart skip a few beats.

I get the impression that you're somewhat reluctant to handle your newest snake due to fear of being bitten, and it's just a 4ft king snake. Burms are bulky, have a lot of mass, and can pack quite a wallop. An 8ft burm will dwarf an 8ft rat snake.

If you don't have the experience to know how to deal with an irritated snake, of any kind, knowing how to read their body language, being able to think like they think, then you're not ready for a burmese python.

Please believe me, I say that for your own good, as well as for the good of a burmese python.

Granted, there's several months between now & when you suspect you might get a burm from the person you're talking about. I beleive it's possible for you to gain enough experience within that time, but you'll need a good mentor and/or an untamed snake or two.

A few other things to think about are:
(1) Will you have someone that will help you handle your burm when it's about 2yrs old and 8ft long? That's when they're a sizeable force to reckon with & shouldn't be dealt with from that point on (20-plus yrs) unless you have someone to help you in case of an emergency.

Granted, it's few & far between, but the chance is always there, no matter how docile it's been for the first years of it's life.

I'm not trying to scare you away from them; they're known as "gentle giants" for a reason, but there's always that chance.

(2) Can you afford to buy, build or have a huge cage built for it? At least 8ft(L) x 2.5(W) x 2.5(H).

(3) Can you afford to feed it several rodents every two weeks? That can be costly.

I know you said that you're going to go to the breeder's place and get a better idea of caging, handling, feeding, etc..., and that's a great idea. I just want make sure you really consider these areas.

> > > I understand that getting one of these animals is a long term committment and I want to make sure that not only am I ready for that but also that I can provide for what the animal needs.

You're thinking on the right track, just be sure & not fool yourself or talk yourself out of going with your gut instinct.

Now, for the good part. Burmese pythons are wonderful, beautiful, creatures. They're not personal creatures, but very few snakes are. They're basically slow-moving, just enough to where you can enjoy handling them or watching them crawl around outside or in a room, without having to continually chase after them or change hands. Mine have given me more joy for the money than just about anything else I have, other than wife/kids, or course.

> > > When dealing with breeders what should i look for?

Well, not like I'm Mr. Perfect, but, the first thing that comes to mind is, "legality." The breeder you mentioned may well be experienced, knowledgeable, and generally a good guy that's skirting the law in this one area. I'm not knocking him. I don't know him, so I can't. However, laws are laws, even the ones we don't like.

I don't have a couple of rattlesnakes that I want due to my state's laws say I have to meet a few requirements first, but I'm just about there, legally.

I hope this helps.

Oh, and thanks for not getting upset with me.

Have a great day!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

First off i really appreciate the reply. Just want to answer some of your questions so you have a better idea of what im looking at If i sound defensive Im not, just tryin to do it in a speedy manner lol

Your right I only have a tiny bit of experience (when i typed that 'Bit' i was really second guessing it). What I meant is it's not like I've never touched a snake lol. I havent been bitten yet by the rat snake but he does get moody and hiss and i've learnt to read him pretty well. And the reason i havent handled my king snake is because i just got him less than a week ago so i was giving him some time to settle in as well as he was acting very hungry as soon as i got him into his cage... (by acting hungry i took it from what the rat snake is like when i know he wants food)so i fed him on friday and im just waiting for him to finish digesting so i can see how he is with handling, when not in shock/shedding/digesting.

As with having someone to handle it with me. I'm not making this decision alone, its up to me and my boyfriend. Hes a pretty massive guy, about 225 pounds of muscle, so I'll always have at least one person extra person.

As with their power and force. I understand that there is always a chance for emergency situations, regardless of how tame they are. But doesnt everyone who owns a burm take that chance? It never stopped you from having them did it?

Caging also isn't a problem. I've talked to my boyfriend about it and explained to him over and over about everything I've read, on here and on other sites. About size, and what to make it out of and heating and everything and he is fully confident he can make it no problem, he's kind of a jack of all trades.
And once the snake is full grown and needing a cage that large we will also have the room for it as we are buying a house next fall.

As for feeding, I was buying frozen mice/rats from the pet store. But, I just found some who raises her own and now I'm buying them off her for much cheaper. My ratsnake is taking two or three 3inch rats or large mice every friday and the king snake is so far taking one adult mouse every friday. So it's not really alot right now, but i know that it would be with much more with a burm. Either way I'm thinkin I'm just gunna raise my own rats starting right away because my boyfriend has no problem killing them and all that stuff...(it makes me kinda queasy). Anyways, feeding shouldnt be an issue at all.

This might sound dumb, i know that i dont have experience with burms or Large snakes. But if I were to have one from a baby, and train it and handle it regularly and learn its behavious and attitude and tells, wouldnt i be capable once its fully grown?

Anyways, thanks for the help and i look forward to hearing back from you

Good reply, and I love your honesty in both of your posts.

Bless your heart, I imagine that my first reply bordered along "aggravating" due to me pretty much just repeating the things you had already mentioned. Ha! I did it for a good reason. You're thinking on the right track, asking yourself, and others, the right questions; I just wanted to try to make them stick in your mind.

I'll try my best to keep this short so you can spend more time reading "laurafl's" first reply to you. That, my friend, is an excellent response she gave you, especialy considering that she was once in very similar poistion that you're in now.

From the way you capitalized "Bit" in your first post I knew that you meant pretty much the same as what I said, "wee bit." Not a total newbie, but not an expert, either.

> > > "...me and my boyfriend. Hes a pretty massive guy, about 225 pounds of muscle, so I'll always have at least one person extra person."

Yeah, I'd say the he would make at least one extra person. Ha! Ha! Tell him I said, "Howdy!" I want to stay on his good side. Ha! Ha!

> > > "As with their power and force. I understand that there is always a chance for emergency situations, regardless of how tame they are. But doesnt everyone who owns a burm take that chance?"

Yepper, we sure do. If a person has the gumption to take that risk, then they've got a trait that will help them with keeping burms. The lack of that gumption is probably the #1 reason some people don't keep burms. And rightfully, they shouldn't. The paragraph that the above excerpt is from shows me that you've got a lil' bit of spunk. I like that.

If I sat here & painted a rosy picture of keeping burms then I would be doing an injustice to you and a burmese python. That's why I felt like I had to say something about it.

> > > "It never stopped you from having them did it?"

Yes & no. As a child (6yrs old) I started catching yellow & red rat snakes. Playing with them throughout the day & letting them go later on that day. I got a summer job at the age of 14 just so I could buy a boa, and I did. It was a 4-footer that hadn't been handled in awhile and was fairly aggressive. After a few bites here & there, and less than one week, he was tame as could be. The following year I got my first burm, an 8-footer that was tame.

A few years later my interests changed & I got rid of all my snakes. One year later I was wishing I hadn't. I could've bought a 6ft burm that was somewhat aggressive but I decided not to because I wasn't so sure I could deal with taming it.

Here I am 30 yrs later with virtually no fear of any of the big boys (burms, retics). Virtually no fear, BUT, plenty of respect. I know what to do & what not to do. I know when to do it & when not to do it. It's one of those things that only comes with experience. Please don't misunderstnad me, I'm not trying to brag, not by any means. I'm, by far, no expert.

> > > "This might sound dumb, i know that i dont have experience with burms or Large snakes. But if I were to have one from a baby, and train it and handle it regularly and learn its behavious and attitude and tells, wouldnt i be capable once its fully grown?"

No, that's not a dumb question, it's a perfectly logical one. My answer is: Not necessarily. It kinda falls back on that "gumption" thing, along with a few other things.

Learning to read an animal's body actions, behavior, is good, it's very important. However, it's not everything. Once we interpret a behavior, we have to, sometimes within a split-second, devise a plan to deal with that behavior and act upon it.

My personal experience:
I got two baby burms 3yrs ago. They've gone from 2ft - 10ft long. I know them like the back of my hand, or so I thought.

When my female was 8ft long, she was in a shedding process, with cloudy eyes, and I had to clean her cage. I got her out & into a holding container I use and cleaned the cage. I got her out of the holding container and held her for a few minutes. I'm hard of hearing, in both ears. My wife walked into the room and said, "Boy, she sure sounds mad."

"What do you mean?" I asked.

"She's hissing up a storm. You can't hear her?" my wife replied.

"No, I can't." I said.

Then I noticed her body inflating as she inhaled. I turned her face towards mine, a few feet away, though, and she exhaled hard enough to blow my hair quite a bit.

I felt a tad bit of fear coming up from the pit of my stomach, along with a whole lot of respect for her size. It was then & there that I realized we were at the point to stop handling her alone. I've had her since she was a baby. She has never even looked like she was going to strike. And so far, thank goodness, she hasn't. She still hisses a lil' every now & then but she just keeps right on trucking, letting me do what I want to do with her. But I'm more watchful of her now.

Well, I wrote a heck of a lot more than I intended to. Sorry about that! Read "laurafl's" post a few times, I think it's really a good, appropriate one for your situation. But notice that she went from rat snakes to boas & then to burms, like I did.

I'm not saying that a person has to do that. Like I said in my first reply, I think it's possible for someone to be pretty much ready within the timeframe that you laid out for yourself. The choice is yours. How hard will you work on preparation? (That's not really a question, but more of a thought provoker.)

Just yell if you've got any other questions. That'll make me feel right at home since my wife yells at me all the time anyway. She claims it's because I'm hard of hearing, but I think that's a scapegoat for her. Hahahaha!!!

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Thanks again.
How can you get a real answer if your not honest asking the question?

I appreciate you reitterating (Spelllling????) to me the important questions! Laurafl's response was helpful, she reminds me of me

> > > "As with their power and force. I understand that there is always a chance for emergency situations, regardless of how tame they are. But doesnt everyone who owns a burm take that chance?"
and do i EVER have spunk. To be honest sometime peoplerefer to me as Queen Spunky........ kidding. But they should!

Anyways,i understand that animals will be animals. and i like the fact that burms are considered gentle giants and can be 'calmed down' nicely.... but i also realize they are still a wild animal and anything can happen.

You want to know whats NOT fair.... The only snakes around to catch in my area of the world are garter snakes!!! and let me tell you! they stink.aha
Rat snakes would have been fUN. definitely spent pretty much all of my summers as a tomboy misfit walking through the trees, listening for the sound of snakes and coming home with buckets full of them,only to bring them back the next day and find a different bush!.

YEELLLLL!!!!- okay when you ask how much prep work will i put into it. If i do choose to buy one, what kind of prepwork are you talking about?? i dont mean to sound naive... theres a good chance i already know that answer but i just want to be clear. I will only choose to get one of these animals if I am 100% certain im ready for it. Im learning as much as i can just reading stuff onthe internet... but theres nothing like having personal questions answered and personal opinions and advice givin, especially since some of the stuff on the internet can be confusing and misleading...

******ALSO. I'm still not even close to making a decision. I know i need to learn alot more before i can But if it so happens that i feel a burm is going to be too much or if im not quite ready for one, i may get a ball python. Or something a fair bit smaller than a burm but hopefully a fair bit bigger than my rat and king snakes.

Again. I look forward to hearing back from you, Really appreciate your insight!

Hey there!
The preparation I had in mind is getting yourself acquainted, as much as possible, with large-bodied snakes; seeing them, handling them, even just being around them when someone else is holding them.

Is it really necessary? No, I don't feel that it's absolutely necessary, but, it will be very beneficial. It will be beneficial in helping you to decide whether or not to get one & beneficial in the even that you do get one. Not including the fun of it, too.

I don't know how well you know the breeder or if your boyfriend is going to go with you, but just be careful. If he's a good guy maybe you can arrange for you to go over there a few times and help him clean cages or something so you can be around big burms a little. Go to every reptile show you can and hang out around the booths with big snakes. You can even post here in this forum: "Looking for mentor in BC area." or something like that. With the right person, you might could be ready for one after only a few sessions. You, and the mentor, should know at least by the end of the 2nd session whether you've got what it takes or not.

In all honesty, that's a bit of an extreme suggestion, for most snakes. Heh, that's basically what they say should be done to prepare one for keeping venomous snakes, except most people will say you need years of it and not just a few sessions. I'll not get off on my rant about that here. (Whew! That was close.)

Anyway, where was I........, Oh, yeah. The reason I don't think it's too overboard is because I'm assuming that you're looking at getting a normal burmese python. While they cost more than a dime, they're still practically a dime a dozen; quite abundant, which also makes them hard to get rid of. That may not be so in your area, I don't know. But like Laura said earlier, the person she got her's from had trouble getting rid of it & a few others.

A lady just called me yesterday wanting to know if I'll take in an 8-footer. I don't need it, I don't want it, but I'm gonna take it in & try to find a good home for it. Rob Carmichael has said that he has trouble giving the ones he rescues away. I don't want anyone to get stuck with something they don't want. It won't be good for them or the snake. That's probably why Laura's burm passes water like it does. It could have damaged kidneys from being dehydrated for too long (not taken care of because it was no longer wanted).

I'm sorry! I know you're already aware of most of that and I know you're not just jumping into the water without knowing how deep or shallow it is. I just got going & kept rambling on. Sorry!

To build a simple cage, a standard box-type with glass front, you're looking to spend at least $350 - $400 (US currency). At least that much, and that's if you already have the tools to do it. Tack on another $100-plus for tools.

Feeding costs: If you have one that's hard to switch over to rabbits, like both of mine have been, for a 9 - 10ft burm, you're looking at aproximately 8 large rats every two weeks. In my neck of the woods, if you bought them at a pet store they'd cost $6 each, for a total of nearly $50 every two weeks. But if you raise your own rats they'll only cost you a buck or two each, at most. However, raising rats takes time away from other things. If you can get them to eat rabbits your cost would be substantially less.

Your electric bill will increase a bit, too, from having to keep them & the room they're in, warm. I've got a lot of reptiles with high heat requirements and my power bill runs about $200 higher per month, on average. That's for about 13 snakes and 7 lizards. Somewhere around there. Yours may only increase $30 - $60 per month (wild guess), but I don't know for sure. It shouldn't be near as much as mine, though.

Well, once again, I failed at trying to keep it short. Heh, I've been that way for 46 years, I don't know what made me think I'd be any different this time. Ha! Ha!

Hope this helps!

Hang in there!
HH

Plus the time factor. The time to clean & feed snakes, clean & feed rats, etc...
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Again.... Thanks for the reply and dont worry about keeping it short, the more you write the more i absorb.... haha.

Okay. Question, I'm covering my bases in the event that come next spring im not ready or if i decide that i should start with something smaller. What would you recommend as another option for a snake for me? If i feel that im not ready, I want to gain experience with larger snakes (to maybe work my way up to a burm) but maybe something in the 6-8ft bulkier range... any ideas?

I say a boa. Either a BCI (Boa Constrictor Imperator - Boa Constrictor, Columbian Boa, Columbian Red-tail, are all the same) OR BCC (Boa Constrictor Constrictor - Red-tail Boa, Suriname, South American Boa, are all the same).

They average between 8 - 10ft in length and are just slightly less massive than a burmese. They're nice snakes, beautiful and normally docile if handled fairly frequently and not neglected.

They're movements and personalities are a bit different than burmese but close enough. They're size makes them more handleable and can ease the transition to a burmese. I haven't had one in many moons but it will most likely be the next snake I get. I've been thinking a lot about them for several months now.

As you already know, the bottomline is: You have to like it. It could be the rarest snake in the world, worth a heap of money; but if you don't like it, you won't take care of it properly, you'll never be happy with it. Therefore, it would be worthless to you.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

If you're looking into Burms here's a piece of advice that I haven't seen mentioned-ask the breeder you've been talking with if he'll let you have a bit of supervised "hands on" time with one of his adults-I've handled Burms and retics up to about 10 feet until Sunday night when a friend called and asked for help cleaning the cage of a python I last held at 35 pounds. She was a handful at that size, but now she's pushing 100 pounds(13-15 feet)-her strength now compared to then blew my mind. I'm not trying to scare you off, they're great snakes, but see what you're getting yourself into before you're actually dealing with one that size. Like I said, even at 35 pounds they're a handful(and potentially dangerous) and that weight range is basically a baby.

Actually, Hillbilly did recommend working with someone. I second the boa recommendation as an alternative. I have a BCI and he's great, but he is different from a Burm. His body language is different, the way he moves is different, and he requires different physical handling. He's our tangle snake that will grab everything as you're walking by with him and he's very "squeezy". My 13yo daughter calls the Burm a worm and the 11yo calls him a noodle. He just kinda plops on you and have to have two or three people carry him out the door for outside time. Boas are very beautiful and have that exotic face, but they'll be hanging around with you for quite a long time as well.

I love my gentle Giant
Link

"So I think i have a Bit of experience with snakes. I'm very comfortable handling snakes in general.
Now, moving forward, since talking to this breeder Ive been seriously flirting with the idea of gettin a Burm."

I think that each type of snake and each individual snake presents its own challenges. I was recently given a 10year old, 12ft Burm that still makes me nervous! I've had him for 2 months and he's a great snake, but the power, size, and potential problems with these guys keeps me on my toes. I didn't grow up around snakes, but I have 6 years of experience handling snakes, including a large boa and other assorted smaller snakes.

Ironically, the snake that creeps me out the most is a 4ft Sunglow corn snake that seems to see a target board on my hand. I really don't like to get bit and he has it in for me, plus he's fast and skittish. My teenage daughter just laughs at me and picks him right up. (I'm much more comfortable around our lizards.) Our 7ft boa creeps out my husband because he has the S neck and that 'look'. Toby is one of my favorites because I can read him so easily.

Even though I didn't grow up around snakes, I have owned a variety of exotics, horses, and livestock throughout my life (I'm 37). The secret is to learn as much as you can about an animal, especially how to 'read' its behavior. I've only had my Burm for 2 months, but I know he's really grouchy when he's shedding and for about 4 days after he eats. I know if my boa isn't fed while his head is in the hidey, he'll strike while you're closing the door. If that crazy corn snake has his head close to the door, he'll probably nail me. If my Colombian tegu is in the left corner looking up at the door, she wants out. If the Argentine tegu is half buried, leave her alone. The alligator is clicker trained for feeding, don't make the noise before you open the door...you get the idea. I spend a lot of time working with my animals. We work with the public so they MUST MUST MUST be safe!

There's a post further down the board titled "Do I really want a burm". Some people gave me some great advice and maybe you can glean from it. This snake is expensive and I'm getting ready to plop down quite a few hundred dollars for his cage, plus another hundred or so to set up his heating. Ditto for the boa who is being moved back inside from my garage.

"I'mm pretty sure its illegal to breedburms here, which he mentioned to me. When dealing with breeders what should i look for (not that i have a huge selection)"

Legality is one thing. Legitimate herpers work very hard to stay within the boundaries of the law in order to sustain our reputation. I don't think the public thinks much of Burms anyway. I know I spend a lot of time convincing people that snakes aren't that bad and snake owners are very responsible, 'normal' people. Here in FL, Burm ownership is being monitored because of what is perceived as irresponsible ownership. There's more to it than that, but that's another thread! If Burm breeding is illegal in BC, there's probably a reason. You may not agree with the law, but breaking it or supporting those that do is really not the best way to change it. In fact, it gives ammunition to those who are trying to limit what we own.

"let me tell you this website is a godsend. either way i still have tons of questions."

This website has been very helpful to me as well. Keep asking questions and chances are you'll get your answers. I've found that most of the people are pretty helpful. I've asked some pretty dumb questions and put it out there for whole Internet to read . Sometimes you get an immature, smart *** answer, but not very often. In fact, don't let the one you got earlier chase you away.

Thank you for the reply!!

Yes, i did read that thread 'Do i really want a burm'. Actually i read through almost every thread on before i even registered an account

Anyways, i totally understand where you are coming from about learning as much as possible. Since I've gotten to an age where i can pick and choose my animals and they are my responsibility i've noticed i realllllly look into it before i do anything.
I decided to get a kitten 2 years ago cuz i was loney and i literally spent about a month researching all the different breeds of cats (yes, cats ) and their different personalities/traits/etc.... I ended up gettin a purebred Manx, and he really is a great fit. . . .
And even before i bought both of the my current snakes i read pretty much every single thing i could find about them on google. I could easily give you a detailed back ground and care sheet for both of them my friends think im pretty much a dork haha.

Mooooving on (sorry i ramble) Learning is what im trying to do right now. I haven't made a decision yet and i don't know how long it will take. I think it will help alot when i go have a gander at the burms this breeder has. But even then who knows. I'm also thinkin about maybe starting with a ball python first ( oh yay another week of research haha) It's such a big decision.

As for reading animals, I grew up on discovery channel and animal planet and ive been fascinated with reptiles, mostly snakes since i was like 5. maybe its just me but i feel pretty confident with myself to pick up on the animals quickly. and i totally agree with you that each individual animal is totally different.

as for expense ... oh boy. shouldnt be tooo much of a problem. my boyfriend is ridiculously handy and can do pretty much anything (seriously, he cooks, cleans, mechanics, carpenter, plumbing, welding, roofing, building crap, you name it he can do it) he doesnt do alot of reading about these snakes but he listens pretty good and i talk ALOT so he's got a really good idea of what we are looking at. i showed him a couple of the threads on here about caging and ideas for materials/venting/hide boxes and he said 1)he could do it no problem and 2)he already knows pretty much how hes going to do it.

Sorry again for the rambling. I'm trying to explain as much as i can about the thought ive put into this because then i get Even more feedback from you guys which is in turn helping me learn more and make a more educated decision.

Sounds like you're doing your homework. I took me almost a year to decide to get this one particular Burm. I have a business where I go into the schools, etc and teach kids about reptiles. Someone saw my van sign and asked if I would take an albino Burm. I've never had a snake that big and really didn't want one (neither did my husband). I declined. About a year later the same woman sees my van in the grocery store parking lot, asks about what I do. She asks if I have a Burm, then if I want one. Turns out the to be the same people. My husband and I decided to take him and he is the grand finale of some shows. If I weren't in this business, I wouldn't have such a large snake. One reason why I accepted him (besides being free) is that he is already 10 and I felt I could handle the time commitment for the rest of his life, KWIM? I also got my boa from someone who just didn't want him and he was only 3, only 5 1/2 ft, dehydrated, dry skin stuck to him. Of course, I'm not implying that you would ever treat your animals like that, it's just an example of someone who changed their mind later. These people who gave me the Burm were moving to Alaska and had to give up all their snakes (including another Burm, Afrock, and Boa). NO ONE would take them, no zoos, not the Serpentarium. Once you have the big boys, you've got 'em!

Like Hillbilly said, (such a good virtual friend), no one is trying to talk you out of it, everyone just wants you to know the truth, good, bad, and ugly. And like Josh said below, make your own decision. If you do decide to get a Burm, get a good feeding plan in place, get handy with a snake hook, and have an emergency plan. I use a hook with my boa and it helps to differentiate between feeding and handling. He's turning out to be a real bugger when he's hungry. Of course he's 7ft now, nice and healthy!

Lots of good info in this post. I'm glad to see you doing your homework. Hillbilly is always has good info, Laurafl has come a long way in the last couple of months and Josh is coming along also and I mean this as a compliment to all of you.

The only thing I wanted to add was perspective. If you look at the pic I posted above on "prey items" you will see what a baby will grown into. I'm not saying anything bad about her. She is a great snake and I love to handle her, but she is a handful. She is about 15 ft and 100 lb. I'm 6ft and about 270. If enough of her tail is on the floor with her around my shoulders she can push me around the room.

Burms grow to be big, strong animals, but like Hillbilly said, they are gentle giants. I know it's been said that you never handle a big snake alone and I agree with that completely, but you have to have someone there that knows what to do if the snake does attack. Calling 911 isn't the answer. I was bit by a 14 ft burm on my hand several years ago. The guy that was with me was more concerned about getting me a towel for the blood than helping me getting the snake off of me. I had to tell him every step until we got her off me. He then wanted to get the towel before we had he secured in her cage. If she had me around the neck and I couldn't talk I don't know what would have happened. By the way, she was hungry and only thought I was food. She didn't bite me out of agression. Snakes are easily unwrapped by starting with the tail, not the head like most try to do. I have to laugh when I hear stories of 5 firemen to get a 10 ft burm off someone.

Ok, sorry for the negetive side. I'm not trying to run you off or change your mind. You seem to want all the info you can get. I love burms, they are by far my favorite type af snake. They are usually active, curious and very mild mannered. When I walk into our Burm room they all watch what I'm doing and I have to say hi to each and every one of them, even if I just rub on the glass.

I will say everytime I've been bit it was my fault. Not paying attention to their body language.
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

thankee, thankee, them's mighty kind words

Well, I guess when you have one you sort of get immersed in them. I ended up being in a position to learn about them quick.

I talk to mine, too. He follows our movements since he's in our front room and sees a lot of traffic. Then again, I say Hi to all 40 or so of our critters throughout the day. I know they are not social beings like cats and dogs, but at least I know they are familiar with who I am. Some of the lizards are partial to me because I'm the feeder...gives me a nice ego stroke for the day when the kids treat me like chopped liver!

Nice to hear that you are using the snake hook that Hillbilly and I pounded into you. By the way, let me know how the XXL guinea pigs work for you.

Thanks,
Randy
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Thank You for the reply All the info is really helping me out alot. At this point Im thinkin I could handle a burm with a few more months of researching and learning. But, what Im thinking about now is that i might wait. I'm extremely interested and intrigued by these animals and so far havent been very deterred by the info i've recieved. I've second thought alot of aspects, and am continually thinking over everything in my mind. What i think I may do is start with something a bit smaller. First off because It will be a bit easier when it comes to room for the snake. And also I can then get aquainted with a snake larger than the 2 i already own. I'm only 19 years old right now and i dont know exactly what the next few years are going to be like and if i will be settling down for a while soon or not.... so haveing a snake over 8ft like a burm could be difficult.

Do you have any suggestions of something smaller that I could start with. Im thinking adult size anywhere between the 6-9ft range max. And a thicker bodied snake, Python or boa most likely. Possibly keeping in mind temperment and availibility. I'm up in BC and around here theres not alot of pet stores, if any, that have a good selection of herps Very Depressing.

So if you have any ideas Let me know!!! Thanks!!

First off, I have to ask what is legal in BC. As far as a snake that gets 6 -9 ft and heavy bodied, there are a few to consider.

A boa has been mentioned, they are a good snake to start off with. They are good eaters and usually tame easily, but you have to handle them differently than pythons. They typically aren't comfortable being off the ground, as Mark Miller at Loco Lizards once told me "they need a footprint" and if you don't handle them on a regular basis they will get agressive. We have over 120 snakes, about 20 of them are boas. It's hard to handle them all very often. Some that were tame when we bought them, now will try to turn and bite if you pick them up.

Kelly Haller has Sri Lankans, which are similiar to burms, but don't get as big. I don't know a whole lot about them, you can contact Kelly for more information. I am not sure if she is even selling any, but she would be a good resource for information.

Not to toot my own horn, but we have dwarf burms. These max out at 7 feet and have all the same characteristics of the normal sized burms. One word of caution, do not buy an adult right now. The majority of the adults are all wild caught and VERY aggressive, not a good choice for your first burm. That being said, we have a female dwarf that is 6 feet and full grown and just as sweet as can be. We purchased a pair of babies that were captive bred in Europe, they seem just as tame as normal burms. We are going to try to breed a pair of these this season. We currently have 3 males and 4 females.

Best advice is to go through the classifieds and find something you like, talk to several different breeders and continue doing your homework. You are definately on the right track.

Don't get hung up on animals available only in BC or Canada, some breeders in the US have export license and can ship internationally, or are like us and can have this done for them.

Thanks,
Randy
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

As far as I know, there are no laws against owning snakes of any size, but i've only searched what I can on the internet. All it says about animals (pets) is they arent allowed to run free or be exposed to the public. I'm going to be calling the City of Kelowna just to make sure.

I've not heard of Sri Lankins, but I will defintely look them up. Dwarf burms sound interesting also.
I actually aquired both of my snakes through the classifieds, but Kelowna isn't very big and theres not much on there! I'm trying to find breeders in the area to talk to but again, not much around.

I called a guy who runs a Crocodile Info Program in the city, and he set me up with a snake breeder who also knows a few others in the area. I'm definitly going to have a look at what he has and see if I can get some info from him and then what I may end up doing is looking outside of BC/Canada.
Thanks for all the info and the reply!!

I just wanted to make a clarification. When I said classifieds, I was referring to the classifieds on kingsnake, not the local paper. There is a wide selection to choose from.

If you have any further questions, let any of us know.

Randy
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Alright heres my full out view, I too have been thinking of getting a baby burm for myself. But I haven got one yet, because I'm not sure if I can take on the feeding right now. I just turned 17 and planing on moving out next year, so I've been trying to save up money. Just saying they seem to be costly to feed, but I see that your thinking about getting a bit smaller of snake, witch to me sounds like a good idea. I've had a share of pythons & boas and let me tell you other then my rosy all of my boas have had bad tempers >< I'm not saying that there bad snakes, just saying they are quite to snap. I have also been biten by my pythons >< Now if you want a heavy bodyed snake that dosent get to long I'd go with a blood python, although alot of people will tell you they have bad tempers it realy depends. Most people say that they dont calm down with handleing, but I've had a few around that calmed down nicely, males seemed alot tamer then females. But ball pythons make wonderfull pets and are for the most part very tame, I've had a male for almost 4 years and he has never striked at me, hissed at me once when I put him in the bathtub >< They dont get to big though, max out at about 6 feet. Hope that helped, sorry I know I'm kinda retarded sometimes, just trying to be nice ^^
-----
Kurama- Male Ball python
Seven- Female ball python
Ginseng- spotted Python

Shinnie- Rosy Boa
Hannibal- Male Hypo Boa
Cookie Torment- Female salmon boa

Peanut- Male red footed
Dragon- Leopard gecko
Yuki- House Gecko
Shirgure- House Gecko
Kyo- House Gecko
Akito- House Gecko
Blu- Blue tailed skink
Moo- Blue tailed skink
Ryou- Water Dragon

(7 dogs, 1 cat, 2 birds, 1 hamster, 19 bettas, 25 goldfish, 10 other fish)

Thanks for the reply!. Ive gotten TONS but definitely the more the merrier. Yea ive pretty much decided for now a full size burm is going to have to wait. . . until i settle down a bit more. I've been talking to mike "happyhillbilly" about the snake in his thread "A rescue story", dont know if you've seen it. Anyways, its an 7-8?yr old and its about 7.5ft long, so it would probably max out around 11-13ft ish. Mind you we dont know for sure. BUT the chances of it getting 17-20 ft are VERY SLIM to NONE. We are currently looking into what its going to take to ship the lil lady from NorthCarolina to here. It's gunna cost alot more than buying a baby burm from a breeder in my city but it's worth it to me. Unless of course it ends up costing upwards of 500-600 dollars. then i may need to rethink the decision. We'll see how it goes. If it doesnt work out ill probably start out with a Ball python. In fact there is one for sale right now in the kelowna classifieds tank and all and you have NO idea how tempted I am . But I already have the 2 snakes i mentioned and i just got the second one a couple weeks ago.

> > > I'm only 19 years old right now and i dont know exactly what the next few years are going to be like and if i will be settling down for a while soon or not.... so haveing a snake over 8ft like a burm could be difficult.

Excellent thinking! Very mature and realistic. It's really not much different than having a child, minus the labor pains. When you have one, you just deal with it. When you don't have one, you don't have to deal with it. It's 50/50.

I'm definitely not concerned with you making the right decision, you've got a good head on your shoulders.

If you get a chance, check out my "A Rescue Story" thread. It's sad but it's good, too.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

You asked for a heavy bodied snake that stays 6-9 feet, blood pythons are exactly that. They can be very aggressive, but babies can be calmed. I handled a 6 foot female that was mild tempered like a Burm, but inquisitive like a retic, and so thick she was like the front half of a 10-12 foot burm. Another one that has impressive strength, but not the potential to weigh more than you. Also, with all the types they come in enough normal colors that morphs aren't as much of an issue(but if you're willing to pay enough money albinos are out there).They do seem to have their own set of requirements though, so be sure to keep up with the research.

OK, Randy, what are you butterin' us up for? You're up to somethin', ain't ya? Ha! Ha!

Thanks! And you're not too bad yourself. In fact, that was a nice addition.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Actually, I didn't notice the post until today (the burm forum doesn't line up very well on my computer and it's hard to read sometimes) and kinda felt guilty jumping in on the end after you and Laura had already given her all that advice.

I heard you say something about being at Daytona this year. I wish I had known you were there, I would have liked to have met you. You may have seen us, we were all wearing our Art In Scales shirts. Oh well maybe next year. We're thinking about going to the Dallas show in February, let me know if you are going.

Thanks,
Randy
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

I didn't think I was going to make it to Daytona but things fell into place at the last moment. I was there Saturday afternoon for about 2, maybe 3, hours. Pretty much in & out. I was on a mission and had lots of other things to do.

I got to meet Tom Crutchfield of Herps Limited (or something like that). Tom's a good guy and I really enjoyed our conversation. I also stopped by & talked to Bob Clark for a few minutes for my first time. He seemed like a pretty good fella, too.

Yeah, I would've liked to have met you and your wife. I doubt I'll make it to Dallas. The only reason I made it to Daytona is because I grew up just a skip & a holler away from there. Spent many a weekend in Daytona and New Smyrna. My mom still lives down that way so I had a place to stay.

Maybe we'll get together at Daytona next year, or somewhere else. One of these days I'm gonna mosey on down to Columbia, SC & check out that show.

Take it easy, Randy!
Mike
(HH)
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Yea, we talked to Tom also. I bought my male albino labyrinth from him. We also talked to Bob Clark. We went to his facility in 1995 and again in 1997, so it was good to see him again.

We were there Friday through Sunday. We meet a lot of people, it was good to put faces with some of the people we had talked to over the phone or through the forum and emails. We had a lot of fun. Maybe we'll hook up with you next year.

Later,
Randy
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Thats exactly what I was thinkin when I got my Burmese. She is just over 6ft and can be a bit aggressive. I would not want to be around her when she's in feeding. Its crazy. I would personally say Dont make the mistake I made... Stay with the smaller colubrids, mabey Ball pythons. They are wonderfull little guys and you dont really have to worry about being killed by a 10-20ft Burmese. I do admit they are a very intersting and curious snake, very fun to watch. I think you should just stay with Rat snakes,Corn snake, Kingsnake and any other smaller type.
Just make your own choices, dont let anyone else tell you what to do or what not to do. We are just trying to help
-----
Got Balls?
1.0 Pastel BP (George)
0.1 Spider BP
0.1 Huge normal BP (Beladona)
0.0.1 Gray Banded king
0.1 7 foot Burmese
0.0.1 Red phase Eastern Hoggie
0.0.2 RES
0.0.1 Musk turtle
1.0 Cat(Higgens)
2.0 Dogs (Boomer,Buster)
1.1 Iggys (Bart, Lisa)
1.1 Beardies
0.0.1 Axthantic Red tail Boa
0.0.1 Prairie King snake
0.0.1 Savannah Monintor