Reptile & Amphibian Forums

how many generations of fresh genes do you need so you don't have to worry about inbreeding? example: Will Bird's Breeder#2 is a Lamar, and I have a baby male from her. (and just to be safe lets say that all the Lamars mentioned are directly related, cuz I don't know)and Hummel sold me a baby female whose grandfather is a Lamar. Could the male from Will Bird breed with the Female from Hummel? Or do we need some more generations of fresh genes in there? By my count that was 1 infusion of fresh genes from the father for the Will bird, and 2 unrelated snakes for the Hummel female.
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-Jasmine

1.4 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
1.0 Peruvian Rainbow Boa

Inbreeding is commonly done to further a desired trait. For example Mike's Hypo line came originally from breeding two siblings. The problem comes from the reduction in the gene pool which also allows present undesirable to also be propogated.

I know of one hypo BCI project which id already into F5 babies. F2's being offspring of siblings, F3's being offspring from those F2's etc. etc. And they are not as of yet experiencing any problems.

I believe in general a few generations of direct inbreeding might be OK but much more than that and you have to outcross in order to strengthen the gene pool.

Your given example should be just fine. Provided there no nasty genes lurking in there but then again, none are known to exist in the line(s) so it would be like hitting the reverse lotto.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

ok, nice. I read Mike's thing about his hypo project, but I also heard that hypo's tend to regurg more than other rainbows, so I automatically thought that was a result of the inbreeding, glad to hear I don't have to worry much about that.

>>Inbreeding is commonly done to further a desired trait. For example Mike's Hypo line came originally from breeding two siblings. The problem comes from the reduction in the gene pool which also allows present undesirable to also be propogated.
>>
>>I know of one hypo BCI project which id already into F5 babies. F2's being offspring of siblings, F3's being offspring from those F2's etc. etc. And they are not as of yet experiencing any problems.
>>
>>
>>I believe in general a few generations of direct inbreeding might be OK but much more than that and you have to outcross in order to strengthen the gene pool.
>>
>>
>>
>>Your given example should be just fine. Provided there no nasty genes lurking in there but then again, none are known to exist in the line(s) so it would be like hitting the reverse lotto.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>24.36 BRB
>>19.19 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
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-Jasmine

1.4 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
1.0 Peruvian Rainbow Boa

Well, I believe the regurge thing is related to the inbreeding and many of us working the hypo projects are actively outcrossing them into unrelated stock. Also, another benefit is crossing them into high color lines to get hich color hypos!!

Goes back to the comment about nasty genes lurking, while not a super nasty one, I do believe there is somewhat of a nasty gene lurking in the hypo's and needs to be purged with selective breeding!! By multiple outcrossing there's the strong possibility of producing lines without that specific nasty gene!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Jasmine,
....During the 80s and 90s Bill Lamar became famous for great looking bright colored BRBs. It got to the point where anyone who had pretty BRBs with bright crescents on the sides would call them "Lamar phase". Many of the "Lamar" animals in collections today are from totally unrelated bloodlines. Inbreeding is probably not too big a problem with snakes. My rat colony has been inbred for dozens of generations over the last 15 years. They are very healthy and produce lots of big fat babies. BTW, I have four pairs of het and possible het hypos. Out of those 8 animals only one of them had any regurge problem and it was only intermittently for it's first year. It is 2 years old now and doing fine and is only slightly smaller than typical 2 year olds.
Jeff

>>how many generations of fresh genes do you need so you don't have to worry about inbreeding? example: Will Bird's Breeder#2 is a Lamar, and I have a baby male from her. (and just to be safe lets say that all the Lamars mentioned are directly related, cuz I don't know)and Hummel sold me a baby female whose grandfather is a Lamar. Could the male from Will Bird breed with the Female from Hummel? Or do we need some more generations of fresh genes in there? By my count that was 1 infusion of fresh genes from the father for the Will bird, and 2 unrelated snakes for the Hummel female.
>>-----
>>-Jasmine
>>
>>1.4 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
>>1.0 Peruvian Rainbow Boa